Finding a male

[lhcfireman]

I am still new at the breeding thing and have a few questions.

First off is my female old enough. She is an early '05 about 4.5-5' and I don't know her weight,she is eating XL rats. She is supposed to be a pastel but she is pretty dark, there is pink on her sides and belly though.

Now for the male. What would be my best bet for getting some awsome looking babies from her. I don't completly understand the genetics thing yet. I have read the genetics table on salmonboas.com, but that is for salmons only. I realy like the albinos and sunglows. Or would I be better of using a nice normal for her fist time and try for something else next year.

Well in case you havn't seen her yet her is our girl.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v128/lhcfireman/Snakes/big%20girl/100_0576-1.jpg

[Randy_T.]

She's good looking. As far as age and size. She's not ready and won't be by this fall/winter. If albinos are what you want to work toward I would get a neo male albino from this years births and raise it up to try for next fall/winter. You won't want to run a normal male through her if you plan to make hets with her down the road as sperm retention could happen (not much documentation regarding it) and it could come back to bite you later.

Another option to go with would be to plug a nice hypo/salmon male into her and plan on adding albinos down the road.

How ever you do it, good luck. :)

[ChrisGilbert]

I personally think you are pushing your female too much allready. My only 100% Colombian adult is this Kahl Albino. She is an '04, and eats a large rat every week. She MIGHT be ready this year.
http://gilbertboas.com/_Media/dsc06183_large.jpeg
None of my boas eat larger than a large rat. Especially not one as young as an '05.

[lhcfireman]

Well I just got her less than a month ago and that was what they were feeding her. I just had HER sexed today to find out for sure and it turns out SHE is a HE so my problem is solved. I also bought a large rat too and that will be what I stick to. Now I don't have to worry about a male I need to find a female. What should I look for in a female then?

I still need to find some place to read about genetics or a good book to buy.

Thanks

[Randy_T.]

As far as what you want to buy, that will depend on how much you want to spend, what you want to produce and by what route. I would go with something you really really want. Make a list of things you want in order and then make a price point you won't go above. And start looking.

And Chris, why would you say a 2 1/2 year old animal (give or take a couple months) at 4 1/2' is pushed? I've seen littermates that were fed the same diet where 1 would be double the others size by this age.

[ChrisGilbert]

I didn't say pushed because of length, but size of prey being fed. Much more than a boa that size should be eating. I have 6ft. boas that I wouldn't feed that large of a meal to.

If the boa is actually a male and not a female I'd cut back to once every 3-4 weeks feeding.

[Randy_T.]

I think the sizes people quote are often extremely variable. To 1 person a jumbo might be no more then a large. To give an example, I went and picked up some feeders. The larges I was given were more along the lines of a good sized medium for what I'm use to.

I look more at the condition of an animal, size related to age etc rather then stated feeder size to come to the conclusion of whether or not an animal is pushed.

[nickstone]

If I were you I would learn some basic info about genetics, then decide what you want to produce, then obtain them, let them grow to the proper size, THEN attempt to breed them. Whatever you decide best of luck though. Nick

[lhcfireman]

Well I have been trying to find something about genetics but it hard to come by. If anyone knows of a good book or site to read about then please let me know.

One of my thought is to find a nice normal for him and breed them this year. That way I could learn and watch and read. Then get something I like and start for later years. But during that time I would be getting normals for a couple years.

[Chubbz]

theres nothing wrong with normals...i mean u gotta start somewhere right???

[lhcfireman]

Thats what I'm thinking.

[Bernie]

Please read next post

[Bernie]

I think that one of the biggest things with the genetics is knowing the difference between a simple recessive trait and a co-dominant trait. Albino and anerythristic are two examples of a simple recessive trait. With a simple recessive trait the offspring has to receive a recessive gene from each parent in order to show the trait. Therefore by breeding an albino to your normal will not produce any albinos but all of them will be what is referred to as 100% heterozygous (het for short) for albino. A co-dominant trait only requires having one dominan gene from either of the parents. Therefore if you were to breed a boa with a co-dominant trait with your normal (i.e. salmon, jungle, motley) then each of the offspring has a 50% chance of getting that dominant gene from the parent with the co-dominant trait so theoretically half of the babies should be this co-dominant trait. Now with the co-dominants there are supers. Supers are a boa that carries two dominant genes for the co-dominant trait (one coming from each parent) instead of one dominant and one recessive. Which now brings about two more terms to know the difference of: Heterozygous and Homozygous. Heterozygous simply put is the mix of one recessive gene and one dominant gene. Homozygous is either two recessive or two dominant genes. An albino and a Super Salmon are homozygous while a Salmon is heterozygous. I hope that this helps out a little bit there is still a lot to learn about genetics and it is something that I am very interested in learning more about.

[lhcfireman]

Wow that accually helps out alot, thank you.

[ChrisGilbert]

The only thing I'd correct on Bernie's post is that Hypos/Salmons are Dominant, no Co-dominant. There isn't a significant phenotypical difference between Heterozygous and Homozygous individuals to make it Co-dom. The Motley, Jungle, and Aztec are Co-dom. Arabesque, and Hypo are Dominant.

Ihcfireman, what questions do you have? My website breaks down all the morphs. Here is a link to the page on Colombian Boas: http://gilbertboas.com/colombian_boas.html

There you can click on Recessive, Co-dom, Dominant, Dual, and Triple morphs and see all the listings. Pics of many follow that. This same list exists for all locales of boas. The designer morphs of Bloody Salmon are under El Salvador, while the Anery Leopard and Hypo Leopard are under Sonoran because each was a cross locale mutation.

This page has an outline of all the morphs and locales, it is not up to date. My website is. http://boalist.com/

Here is the page for BCI: http://gilbertboas.com/boa_constrictor_imperator_-.html
Start there and pick a country of origin, then you will find specific locales and morphs of each.

Here is the main page that lists all the subspecies. http://gilbertboas.com/boa_constrictor_subspecies.html

Taxonomy information on every subspecies is also included. As with some history for certain types, such as the BCC locales, and Amarali.

The Book for sale on that one page is Vin Russo's new book and highly recommended. A lot of in depth detail, combined with the info on the website and I think you have everything you could ever need!

[nickstone]

Tons of great info and links, thanks Chris

[Bernie]

Thanks for the correction and added info.:)

[lhcfireman]

Thank you for all the info. I'm reading and learning alot.

[Linda]

How was your snake sexed? It's hard to tell from the pictures, because her head is in the way. It's just her tail seems pretty "short" to be a male.

At your boas current size, you should be able to tell by the length of the tail and spurs. A male will have "obvious" larger spurs that are very visible.

A female will have a shorter tail and spurs that are smaller, not so obvious, and somewhat "buried" under the surrounding scales.

I guess there's "exceptions" to this way of determining sex, but normaly it's an accurate way to tell on larger boas.

Anyway it's hard to tell where the anal plate is, but I'm going by the pattern on the tail to make a guess. If it's where I think it is, then you could still have a female.

BTW I gave away a "HUGE" male a while back. He had HUGE spurs and a LONG tail. I even had pictures of him breeding a female. The person I gave him to took him to get "sexed". which wasn't in any way, shape, or form necessary. They actually had this "8 foot MALE" probed to determine the sex. The person that did the probing told the guy that "he" was a "she". When he came back and told me I had sexed the snake wrong I felt "obligated" to email him several pictures of his "newly sexed female" breeding. Lots of "pink" in those pictures, if ya know what I mean. He's not convinced the HUGE boa I gave him is a "male" :)
Anyway people can make mistakes on sexing a boa. You might want to double check or, at least, get a second opinion

[lhcfireman]

I watched him prob the snake and the prob went in 8-9 subscales, his spurs are about .25" and curved. I to have heard of females having big spurs so that is why we had him probed. Now just to ask I was told females probe 3-4 possibly 5 scales and males are 7-10. Is this true? I will have him sexed again to make sure. Now you have me wondering again lol.

[ChrisGilbert]

Males usually probe much deeper. If the person used too small a probe for the boas size it would go 7-8 in a female. The right size probe won't pass 4 in a girl.

[lhcfireman]

What would be the right size probe to use for a 4.5' boa?

[Linda]

You might be able to do a "rub test" on a 4.5 foot boa.

To do a rub test you just take your boas tail and hold it between you thumb and index finger. Your thumb should be on the bottom part of the tail. Then just run you thumb down the tail. You might want to use a lubricant. You can use anything that will add a bit of slipperiness. Mineral oil is good, but even water will do. Anyway as you press gently, but firmly, down your snakes tail you might feel a small "lump" pass under your thumb. If you feel a pea size lump that's the hemipene.

If your boa is too large to do the rub test.....

OK, if he's a male your boas tail will be longer and feel "full". It will have a little bit of squishiness to it. Sort of like a water balloon, but just not as much. A females tail will be shorter and it will feel "firmer". If you check the tail you'll know what I mean.

So squishy for a boy and firm for a girl. A male is especially squishy during breeding season. Their tails almost look "inflated" or slightly swollen. Probably because they're making..... Well, you know what they're making, so I don't have to say it. :)