a little fun guessing about how to tell hets apart

[Randy_T.]

Hello all, I was just curious as to the differant ways people have heard that we can tell hets from non hets, as of the past few months I have heard of the 4th and fifth tail saddle being connected is an indicator, and also that a white stripe through the saddle (atleast 4 of them) indicates it.

Here is a pic of my Ronne Pastel poss het albino showing the white stripe...
Just curious as to what everyone else thinks.

Later

[Randy_T.]

here is the pic

[Jon-e-Boy]

I'll have 100% hets born this year hopefully and I'm going to compare a group of them to a group of normals and then a group of 66% hets and see what I can deduce. But as of now, I feel there is no way to tell in most cases.

[Linda]

OK, I have an idea, but I don't want to say. You see it's sort of a "silly" idea and I don't want to be the only one here looking "SILLY". So if a few more people post their ideas then I'll post mine. By the way it was my daughter that noticed this "difference". I checked all of my hets and possbile hets and they all have this "trait". :(

[Boa_Keeper]

People....

There is no way to tell.

Some one claim he could tell by the eyes....

A friend took about 15 pictures of Boas eyes.

The was 3 Hets, 2 Double Het Snow, and 2 Double Het Sunglows. Among 3 Hypos, 4Normals and 1 Anery Boa.

Some people got 1 right. Most got 2-3 right. one guy got 4 Right.

Most people think those Normals were the Hets. Go figure.

A lot of people have try this with the worst luck ever. Less than 20% chances of getting it right.

Luis

[kryolla]

This is just for telling the 66% PH Albino from normals. Thats all Jeff is talking about. I think that 2 out of 3 is really a good chance that when tried with whatever characteristic your going for, will get good odds. Jeff tried this and got some normals that he thought were hets. MHO is there is no way to tell them apart. :-/

Drew

[ratman]

I started to post a question about this Saturday but figured if anyone knew they wouldn't want to share. I have studied a lot of pics and found nothing myself! :'(

[Randy_T.]

People....

There is no way to tell.

Some one claim he could tell by the eyes....

A friend took about 15 pictures of Boas eyes.

The was 3 Hets, 2 Double Het Snow, and 2 Double Het Sunglows. Among 3 Hypos, 4Normals and 1 Anery Boa.

Some people got 1 right. Most got 2-3 right. one guy got 4 Right.

Most people think those Normals were the Hets. Go figure.

A lot of people have try this with the worst luck ever. Less than 20% chances of getting it right.

Luis

Sheesh, I posted the POLL as something to entertain and see what everyone else has heard..
Why are people lately so quick to jump in and say "your wrong" or "you don't know what your talking about" this and the albino suri thread are good examples of the negative naysayers. And btw I asked on the ks forum about the eyes thing and said I noticed a similiraty in the eyes of some poss hets and several 100% hets the day before your friend posted those pix.. So that someone is me, and I never claimed I could tell...
If you didn't post that in any way negative then I apologize. (could just be I found one of my animals with what appears to be an RI setting in and I am in a very bad mood)

[ratman]

Well Randy,
I used to think maybe the black specksbut that didn't wash out and I have looked at all of Jeff's hets and don't see any similarities. I can't see their eyes so maybe that is it. I don't know. I would like to think that there is a way but it seems unlikely! :'(

[Sojourn]

None of the above..... There is a trait that all of my hets have in common with each other. Every 100%er I have ever seen that I am sure was a 100%er also had this trait. I am with Linda that it really is sort of silly idea. But it's a thought that crosses my mind every time I look at mine, or ones for sale.

:'(

[Randy_T.]

LOL, not gonna share huh. That is fine by me, I will go and stand in the corner and pout for a bit now.

[Sojourn]

I can also see it in the pic of your Het, Randy. But it's not the same thing you are speaking about.

Lets have a collaboration here of 100% het pics from all of us and see what we can see.....

I'll start.......

2002 Jeremy Stone male.......
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/28656SpecialD1-med.jpg

2001 STUART female.......
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/28656beautifulhet2-med.jpg

2001 PK bred also het stripe....
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/11772Sidinthegrass-med.jpg

cwm13.gifCan you see it? cwm13.gif

Let's see some more pics. :'(

[Sojourn]

LOL, not gonna share huh. That is fine by me, I will go and stand in the corner and pout for a bit now.


LOL!!!

I would like to see if others are making the same connection between them that I have noticed. Scientifically, I find it really hard to believe it has any real merit..... but it is a common trait.

If someone else notices it I will say what I think it is. But if no one else sees it, I think I will hold on to the idea for awhile..... maybe try to prove it out myself one day. ;D

[davel]

here is my 2002 male Striped Boa het for albino - Kahl produced.

Tell me, tell me, tell me!!!

[davel]

Does Salmons count. If so here is a 2002 female Salmon het albino

I know the "cut outs" seem funny, but it is the only way I can get the file size below 100Kb without degrading quality.

Dave

[davel]

I don't know, but every pic on this thread has body specks?? But I doubt that would be exclusive to hets. :-/

Dave

[The_Boaphile]

I hesitate to jump in here but here I am so I might as well say something right?

I would not vote for any of the options. If there was another selection that said say, "None of the above", I would personally vote for that one. But then who knows? There may be many ways to tell hets from non-hets. Then again there may not be any way to tell at all. It's all really a mystery isn't it?

Did I mention... I LOVE mysteries! :P

[Linda]

Hey Jeff your right! It's none of the above. LOL. Of course, maybe it is one of them and you just LOVE mysteries and you're trying to throw them off the track. ;D Now seriously people there is not a 100% way to tell the difference. Of course, there is a "difference" in "some" possible hets and 100% hets. If you know what the difference is you can make a better "guess" as to which animal "may" be a het. At least, I think there is. I'm hoping to get a litter of 66% possible hets this year. I'm going to use my "idea" and try to pick out the ones I "believe" are hets. Now it's going to take a few years before I know if I'm right or not, but I'll come back and let you know the results.
BTW Sojourn I didn't see the trait in your pictures. We must be thinking of different things. Hey, if you want to trade info on the ideas let me know. I'll tell you my idea if you tell me yours. I'll even go first. :'(

[Randy_T.]

here is a pic of my Jamie Quick 100% het albino female

[Randy_T.]

and here is my 100% het cblt male

[Randy_T.]

and another with me and big ugly..lol

[diablo]

"shrek" like davey said. It does fit you well.!

[Sojourn]

I can see it your pics Dave; although, I have seen several Hypo hets that did not have it. I think the hypo gene messes with it a little. :'(

Lets see some pics of your 100%ers, Linda. I'm not telling yet.... I want someone to see what I see before I give it up. It will make me feel a little more like I'm not just seeing things anyway..... :(

Randy,
I can see it in the first pic, but not in the ones of your cblt.... but not necessarily because its not there, though. ;D Don't you think he and the female from STUART I posted earlier would make a killer pair!

:'(

[Sojourn]

Some more pics.....

This is a different 2001 Het from STUART.......
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/8601baskinglove-med.jpg

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/24436SL1-med.jpg

Same girl, older pic.......
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/24436beggingforLove-med.jpg

2001 STUART Het male......
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/24436BL6-med.jpg

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/24436BL2-med.jpg

I know what I think I see.... What do you see? cwm13.gif

[BCIboy]

I don't even have any hets, but this suspense is murder on me. Won't someone please give us their idea? The only thing I can guess is something about the head pattern? It didn't look visible in the first cblt pic, but all the others had it showing, so that's the best I can do.

[The_Boaphile]

Here is a little hint. I can't see it in the het that Sojourn just posted a bunch of pictures of. Not that it isn't there, just that I can't see well enough what I would be looking for in any of these pictures. Now how is that for a hint?

[Panama_Red]

Well the only thing I am seeing in common so far, with the pics available is the head stripe, and I know that isn't it, Jeff says he can't see it on soujourns last het pics. Lets get a list of the thing that we no it isn't.

It's NOT the:
speckles in the eyes
connected saddles
overall color
white stripe through saddles
speckleing
head stripe
belly color/pattern -can't see the bellys
tail color/pattern -too many diferent tails

Feel free to add your "what it isn't" I am going to go stare at some of my boas to try to figure this out.

[denny_rimes]

Well here goes nothing. I have two theories. The first one is that it is not in the speckles of the eyes, but in eye color. It is more noticable in them when they are young and SOMETIMES in non hets but the eye color above AND below the eyeline is the same. The second one is that it is in the tail. In MOST 100% hets I have seen the grey speckles that are on the side and underneath come around and up between the tail saddles on the end of the tail past the vent. I have also seen this in SOME possible hets, also in a very few normals, but not many. Anyway these are just my dumb guesses. I still have to prove my theories. HA Here is a picture of a 100% het.

Kathy

[CCS]

Here are my 100%'s Let me know if they have what you look for everyone. The first two are from Stuart.
Chris

[CCS]

Other female from Stuart

[CCS]

Here's a pair of 66% het arg crosses that I no longer have.

[CCS]

One more pic of a 66% het suri cross I used to have
Chris

[Linda]

Here's my Het that started as a "possible het". He's a very busy boy these days, so the picture isn't that good.

[Sojourn]

Well........ The man says he can't see it in my pics which kinda rules out what I am seeing. Like I said, it seems silly. I have seen plenty non-albino gene carrying boas with the trait. And just a few that were presented as 100%ers that did not have it.

Now I am off to stare at mine some as well..... :'(

[The_Boaphile]

Wow! If both those Boas that you posted Linda are hets, you are going to make some SCREAMING Albinos from those puppies!

[The_Boaphile]

There may very well be more than one way to get some indication that you may very well have a het and not a normal regarding possible hets. I have one specific thing I look for but there may be a number of other things that can indicate the same thing. I just have only keyed in on one particular thing.

One other thing I have observed though is this. If I have a litter of babies with a bunch of possible hets. If I go through and separate out the ones I think are het from the ones that I think are not het, the hets will always be the prettier group. Always. Now that is a HUGE hint.

[Linda]

Thanks Jeff,
They were both originally Possible hets and they both used to live at your house. They escaped one day and found their way to my house and have been here ever since. Don't worry I'm taking very good care of them. :'(

[ash]

WOW! this post has grown ,i still have no clue what to look for all i have is a 2 poss hets ,it would be nice to know for sure if they carried the gene , i have heard (don't laugh) of a blood test for the gene ????? anyway, a dna test would cost more than the het, someone let us in on what to look for

[davel]

Jeff,

Prettier for you have always been about more color for the past few years right? From reading your pastel thread, the reduction in black helps the color show through. Are you saying that in a given litter of possible hets, the pastel ones are more likely to by hets??

But you are also talking about relative terms, so judging one animals against a standard does not mean much...you have to judge it against it's littermates??

Dave

[Panama_Red]

I have a method thats 66% accurate, worst case 50%.LOL...
I have a feeling that everyone here who has a method to tell which is het or not is a different method. I think there is to much variability in the different hets posted to be able to come up with even a "90% positive way" to tell one from the other. It can't be the most colorful looking babys, there are light hets as well as super dark, and every kind of pattern available on a boa. There are too many different breeders lines for there to be a definitive mark, head shape, color, ect..... I don't mean to be a buzz kill but It's got to boil down to a lucky geuss. If someone could pick out hets by a look why isn't there a new strain of albino picked out of the wild by there "het marking"?

[Linda]

They're "prettier?" OK, that in itself is a HUGE clue. Especially since Jeff doesn't refer to his animals as "pretty". LOL. I'm going to wait until my female has babies. Then I'll post pics and any observations as to the differences. I have about 7 weeks to go before they're born. I'll look for the trait that I "hope" is the way to tell them apart. Utimately I'll keep the ones I like the best. :'(

[The_Boaphile]

Linda that female you have is the third best het or possible het Pastel that I had produced till this past year. She has such intense color and the price you paid, reflects how nice I thought she was. I was not planning on selling her. I didn't think anyone would pay what I was asking but you saw her beauty as well and well she has been yours for some time now. I really really hope you get a great litter from her including some fantastic Pastel Albinos! You could have the best ones born so far you know. Both of those animals have such strong color I think you could get some really really nice ones. Now if and when you do get babies you almost need to see regular Albinos along side the Pastel Albinos to really realize just how orange those babies will be. I carry over a normal Albino myself when I look at them for reference. It makes the difference very stark. The few Pastel Albinos we did sell last year went for $7000 each so you may be in for a nice little windfall if everything works out like I hope it does for you and yours.

Good luck Linda and Dr. "D" who is serving our country bravely risking his life every day for our freedom! You kids deserve it!

Jeff Ronne

[bcijoe]

JEEZ!!! I'm busy and mentally overloaded as it is with work, Christmas prep and this foot + of Snow up here... and now I gotta rush home to look over all my hets again and again and again!
I may get dizzy and just pass out!
Boy oh boy as if I didn't have enough to do tonight.... lol LOL lol

:P

[ratman]

I was just looking back through this thread and was wondering if anyone would like to revisit it since it has been a year and some may have proven their theories or disproved them. I too love a mystery! :'(

[Randy_T.]

Only thing I have learned since this thread is I only have theories still lol. I won't be proving or disproving anything for myself for many more years I imagine.. But one day we shall see..

[william1]

I've heard from a very well known and popular breeder that it's in the eyes. I happen to agree that there is no 100% way to tell from looks. I have found with all my hets that this trait is present. Look for the top half of the eye to be much lighter. I have notices many snakes with this traint on this thread as well. And all these secerets guys? come on, share what you have learned and people will share back. thats how progress happens.

[Sojourn]

I finally shared in a totally different thread what I was/am still seeing. All but one of our hets have both traits we look for, as well as most of the boas in the pics on this thread. It is just a couple of fun theories, and I will never hold 100% stock in them. Truly there is too much variability in boas to be for sure.

When I see pics of hets, I always look for the cross mark between the eyes. Not all hets have it, one of ours does not, but a lot of them do. I also look at the first few tail saddles to see if they droop down into the side medallions. All of our hets, and one possible pastel dream hopeful share this feature.

Ultimately nonsense, don't you think? :'(

[Linda]

OK, I guess I'll give everyone a good laugh and share my idea of  telling which "possible hets" will turn out to be "actual hets". LOL.
My theory has to do with the eyes as well. It has nothing to do with color or speckles. My thought are with the "size" of their eyes. I looked at many pictures of baby hets, possible hets and Albinos. The first thing I noticed is that when Albinos are very young they seem to have "huge eyes". Now it could just be the fact that they're Albino and their eyes just "seem to be larger". Of course, I've also noticed that "some" 100% hets also have these larger eyes. Now by the time these  Albinos and Hets mature they've grown into their eyes and they don't look overly large at all. I'm not saying that any boa that has larger eyes could turn out to be a het. You have to have a known Albino gene in there as well. Cause I guess "any boa" could have slightly larger eyes. LOL.
I had a litter of 50% possible hets this year. I didn't get any Albinos, so I didn't have any to compare. I compared my babies to each other. I did notice that  there were some with larger eyes. It wasn't a great difference, but it was there. Now when I picked out the ones I was keeping I also went by their color. I chose the ones that also had the strongest traits from the father, since I know he's a proven het. Out of 12 babies 4 of them had slightly larger eyes. Also 6 of them had very strong traits from the father. I kept 4 babies and when they grow up I'll find out if my "theory" works. LOL.

OK, that's my idea of  telling hets from possible hets. I'm probably wrong, but I hope ya get a few laughs from it. LOL.  ;D

[Panama_Red]

My method is looking for eye lash marks and what looks like dark eye makeup streaking back from the eyelash marks on the head.....

[Boa_Addiction]

Well, these two are supposed to be 100% het Albino, is do see what I think may be a marker, but I am not really sure.
Ka
http://usera.imagecave.com/greenman1867/Balls/KaAfterShed.JPG
Kali
http://usera.imagecave.com/greenman1867/Balls/Kalwaitingtoshed.JPG

[Boamatic]

I dunno... This could be me... I noticed on alot of my hets they have really really nice deep red tails... Could be me though... lol

[mac1366]

The Only way to tell 4sure is: if they produce albinos, then they are hets! I believe this to be true only because I know people cannot keep secrets and if there was a way someone would have already spilled the beans.

[The_Boaphile]

I can keep a secret. I have lots of them.

By the way... to continue the "scam"... the way I theorize I can tell Hets from non-Hets in litters including 50% and 66% possible Hets is not one of the options in the poll. So which option do I vote for? The "Scam" option?

[mac1366]

SEE HOW YOU ARE!!!!! (LOL).
Quick, someone start another poll and no one answer except the boaphile