Guyana VS. Suriname.Only seperated by political--

[Michael_Manni]

I have discussed this with many breeders of Surinames. They feel as well as I that they are the same snake only seperated by a political border. I also think that we "the U.S." have tagged what we think to be the look of a boa that Supposly comes out of Suriname as a Suriname red tail boa and the look of a boa that supposly comes out of Guyana to be a Guyana red tail boa. However, do these people actually stand at the boarder and collect there snakes personally.NO. of course not.
I have learned through speaking with the bigger importers in the U.S and through the actual people who collect the snakes. That a lot of snakes that look more like what we think is a suriname was actually collected in the country of Guyana and the collector simply crossed the border to get more money. Sometimes he doesn't even have to cross. Can you blame him? I am lucky enough to have family there that are familiar with this business and I have learned a lot of interesting things from them.
There is a difference between the two looks of the two snakes. Maybe it is like the amazon basin emeralds and regular emeralds. But i don't personally believe so. I think that we have tagged a certain look to Guyanas and whenever we see that look, it is a Guyana. They are only seperated by a political border. There habitates are virually the same.
This is a subjest that I have been thinking about for a while. I would love to read what other people think. I also belive that if you decide to breed them togethar your success should be judged on the results of the babies.
I state a lot of my opinions here in hopes to get yours
Thanks,
Michael Manni

As someone thats been into boas for about 35 years, I have to say that Surinams are quite different than Guyanas. Not taxonomicaly !!! there both b.c.constrictor. BUT !!! they are a different, lets say "phase." both countries are next to each other sure, but each country has some different type of terrain from the other. They both have tropical rainforest though and some of the Llanos might spill into western Guyana as well. I would not want to walk from Surinam to Guyana, even though they look small on the map. LOL! Now in the 1980's Guyana was pretty much shut down, Surinam was open for bussiness. The boas coming out of there were light beige dorsally, narrow saddles, light carnation pink dorsal laterals, super nice redtails. most of these boas had few abberant markings as well. They were your text book classic looking boas with lots of light beautiful colors. Later on, Guyana opened back up, and you started seeing boas that are dark, deep purple in color, thick wide saddles with pale pattern elements, alot of specimens with strong abberent patterns, a muck darker type of boa in general. Also, I don't think Surinam is importing boas any longer. The only Surinams out there I believe are from captive collections and they don't look nothing like what is being sold today as Surinams on the open market. someone is lying. If you want real Surinams check out Tudehope, Belknap, Futo, Sipperly. They have the stock that was imported out of Surinam in the early 1980's. The real Surinams.

cheers .................. Jim

[Minus_1]

8)

Surinam and Guyana are right next door to each other so Im sure the locality info gets a little mixed up from time to time...

What I question is can Guyana red tails, come from Guyana and French Guyana? French Guyana is farther from Guyana than Suriname is... So would a snake from either Guyana's be a "Guyana red tail"?

I never claimed to be a geography major, so this may be a dumb question.. so take it easy on me

[Michael_Manni]

French Guyana has some of the most outstanding red tails ever found. You are correct on it's location. It is farther away. I personally own some of these snakes from Tim Beliknap's line (French Guyana and Suriname). They are the most remarkable snakes with red coloration in my colloection. They also seem to display huge tails. I have friends from French Guyana and had a trip planned before the whole Sept. 11 disaster. It subsequently was cancelled. I am trying to get another one planned.
It is my view, that as long as you inform your buyer as to the original origen of the parents, you should have no reservation about breeding them togethar. Their habitats are very very similar and the three countries lay along the same latitude. The babies I got from Tim Beliknap have been consider some of the most incredible stuff born in the last couple of years. I hope I didn't get off the subject here, I have a habit of going off on tangents when I write. If the only thing holding you back from producing stunning babies is a imaginary political line don't let it stop you. I look at them all as the same snake only with slightly different color patterns. I will admit that there is a difference in the looks of the snakes. Ask yourself this "if it wasn't three countries there only one big country. Would there be more then one type of red tail sold here? Or would it be different color phases found, like in the balls?
These are only my opinions and I am by no means an expert in science, only common sense. haha
I would like to hear more of your opinions.
Take care,
Michael Manni

In the 1960's or 70's before Suriname became Suriname, it was called brittish Guiana. Boas that were imported out of brittish and french Guiana were called on reptile dealers list: " Guiana redtail boas" Guyana was also thrown into the mix back then. When it came to how to tell what boa you had back then, they didn't go by country of orgin for those three small countries, they when by color phases, such as " the red and pink Guiana phase" "The purple Guiana phase" etc. When Suriname became a country of its own, they started labling boas from the Guiana's by orgin of country, such as Suriname boa, or guyana boa, etc. and thats how its been to date. Btw, the habitat in Surinam and french Guiana are pretty much the same. it changes dramatically somewhat in Guyana and more so as you head into Venezuela.

Cheers ............. Jim