Fresh shed stripe(Hypo or not?)

[louie]

Better late than never.Does this little one look Hypo to anyone?I would like to know what everyone thinks,Thanks for your opinions.

[louie]

another

[louie]

another

[louie]

another,last one.

[denny_rimes]

Great looking little one!

Denny

[Justin@ectothermz]

god it's nice, looks central american? Happen to know the background on it? That will go along way toward answering the question. It looks like a low grade hypo or in terms it looks hypo melanistic but the lineage and or locality could be the key to the answer we are looking for.

Provide the background and hopefully we can unlock the mystery!

Awesome boa none the less.


-Justin

[louie]

The mother is what I believe to be a Sonoran.She was bred by a colombian pastel,but as soon as he finished with her I put a male hypo in with her and they bred for about a week.There were only 2 of 23 babies that exhibitted a somewhat hypomelanistic trait.Both were much smaller than the rest of the litter.Unfortunately the other one did not make it.Kinda makes you wonder.

[Justin@ectothermz]

Ok hypothesis formulated: Both males sired the litter, a split litter if you will; the hypo male being co-dominant still produced a few hypos within the litter. With the hypo gene known to cause pattern mutations the hypo came out stiped/abby.

This animal is a hypo or at least looks that way, but is simply a darker hypo due to the mother's Sonoron lineage. The tail is a dead give-away and is indicitive of Sonoron animals.

So hypothesis dark hypo/sonoran cross. and the reason for the size is that both Sonoron animals as well as most hypos have a large degree of central american blood hence the smaller animal.

Seems farfetched but is how I see it. Let me know what you think.

-Justin

[louie]

I was thinking along the same lines as you said.I did not really know for sure if that could be possible,but who knows.I am glad you are thinking the same as I am.Thanks for your input,It definately makes things interesting.

[Justin@ectothermz]

Well it can and does happen duel sired litters are not as uncommon as one would think. Case in Point Mike at Basically boas had a split sunglow/Motley litter last year. My thinking is that the majority of the litter was sired by the non hypo animal while a smaller portion was sired by the hypo and with it being a codom hypo only a small cross-section of the animals were hypo (2). It seems illogical but is actually the most likely scenario.

Let the light shine, we have a possibility. Well maybe, anyone else can to venture a guess?

Best,
Justin

[louie]

The definate answer will come in a few years when I prove him/her out.

[Matt_Crabe]

It seems a little odd to me that the only two that exhibited these hypomelanistic traits were much smaller than the others. I understand Justin's point about the small Sonoran mixed with a hypo (mainly C.A, so smaller than a Colombian) could cause this size difference, however there should be a couple "normal" or non hypo babies in there from the hypo sire as well. I'm thinking that these two may just be premies with undeveloped colors. Just another thought to toss around. Either way, it is a beautiful boa.

Matt Crabe

[Justin@ectothermz]

yeah Matt is def. on to something. Are there other small 'normals' similar in size to this one? Could be the outside chance (slim of course) that the hypo only sired two babies and they were both hypo's?

Of course it will eventually be proven one way or another.

-Justin

[louie]

Yes,there were 5 or 6 that were smaller than the others.

[Matt_Crabe]

In that case, I would go with Justin's guess. From your above post:

"There were only 2 of 23 babies that exhibitted a somewhat hypomelanistic trait.Both were much smaller than the rest of the litter.Unfortunately the other one did not make it.Kinda makes you wonder. "

I took it to mean that only these two were smaller. I guess I misunderstood.

Matt

[louie]

This is a poor pic of the one that did not make it,notice the orange eyes.This one was normal size.

[Panama_Red]

Check out Vin Russo's site Cutting edge herps, he has got some straight up hypo sonorans. They are similar looking color wise.

Are there any pastel looking?

[Justin@ectothermz]

yeah it lends itself to the theory of the split sired litter. The picture of the second 'hypo' is simply hard to tell as to whether or not it is a hypo, with us never getting to see it grow and go through sheds then we'll never be able to tell.

However the orange eyes may seem to lend itself to the hypo gene, but I've got normal Sonoran females that have orange eyes so that's not a great determinant.

On another note I've got true Sonoran hypos from Gus at Rio Bravo (same as Vinnie's just not F2's) and they simply don't look like Salmon or Orange-tails like you most likely used in this breeding. They are more of a pink under hue then overall orange color so it's hard to tell with these being a mix of lineage.

Anyhow I think the collective brain power of the forum has helped shed some light on your mystery.

All the best,
Justin

[louie]

All but the two I held back have aready been sold,but I seen a few of them today and they are taking on a pastel apperance.The breeder I sold them to said he is very pleased with them thus far.They sold very fast,Bummer that you cannot keep them all.                    

[louie]

Ed,I went to Vin Russo`s site and alot of the babies looked very similiar to the hypo sonorans he has.Good call.I cannot wait until she is ready to breed again,by then I hope to aquire a true hypo sonoran to breed to her.Thanks to all of you,my brain is really tickin.This is very interesting.