Premie pics and questions.....

[Sojourn]

Are all premature babies typically anerythristic in appearance? And if so, how long does it take for the red colors to develop?

What I am considering premature are three boas from my recent ivory anery X red group hypo litter that were born slightly smaller than the rest of the neonates, and still had a partially filled yolk sac attached to them. They were never unresponsive, rather were flicking their tongues and moving about their cage on the second day after parturition, and the last of the three is shedding right now.

I wanted to wait until after they had shed before posing these questions, because last year I was sure I had anerys when I actually did not, realizing my mistake upon their first shed. This time around I am not so sure, as these three look extremely anerythristic to me.

Here are some pictures of the first of the three to shed, along with some of her and one of the pastels from the litter for contrast......

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sojourn/premies/P530521e.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sojourn/premies/P530521b.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sojourn/premies/P530521c.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sojourn/premies/P530521a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sojourn/premies/2colors2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sojourn/premies/2colors1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sojourn/premies/2colors3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sojourn/premies/2colors5.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sojourn/premies/2colors4.jpg

Sorry for the long post! Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks for looking!

Jesse Van Atta

[Sojourn]

Here are some more pics. The first pics are of the second premie to shed, followed by a pic with the normal from the prior series, and the last pic is of the premie(or her tail rather) that finally shed while I was posting my last post. And then the battery in my camera died.

You can tell by the head structure of the one that these last two are slightly underdeveloped. Anyways.... here you go.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sojourn/premies/P520521a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sojourn/premies/P520521b.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sojourn/premies/P520521c.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sojourn/premies/2colors1b.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v114/Sojourn/premies/P510521.jpg

What do you think?

[The_Boaphile]

Dr. VanAtta,

Those animals look like Anerythristics to me. I don't know how that could happen. Well I do know how, the East Bay Viv. animal could be het. The fact that only 3 of 16 look like that makes me wonder and the fact that it is only the preemie or smaller that look like that also makes me think it can't be realistically possible, but those animals look as Anerythristic and Anerythristics get. Beautiful babies! BEAUTIFUL! The other possibility is this. Parthenogenesis occurs in a number of Reptiles. It has never been proven in Boa Constrictors, but I wonder... could that be what these 3 babies are? Perhaps that would help explain the fact that they were preemie or less developed. Exact duplicates or clones of Mom? Are all three of them females?... just like their mother?

Now if it is Parthenogenesis, does this Parthenogenesis occur more frequently than noticed? Here is why I ask that question. Many of you may remember me writing or saying that "runt" babies always seem to be females... If these runts are sometimes the result of Parthenogenesis, then of course each of them would be a female just like thier mother.

That is what you call your head scratcher, that is for sure.

Congrats on another spectacular litter of kids!

By the way... that first one you show with the tail stripe... How much of whatever I own will it take to get her?

Jeff

[Sojourn]

The other possibility is this. Parthenogenesis occurs in a number of Reptiles. It has never been proven in Boa Constrictors, but I wonder... could that be what these 3 babies are? Perhaps that would help explain the fact that they were preemie or less developed. Exact duplicates or clones of Mom? Are all three of them females?... just like their mother?


They are all female, and all bear some strong resemblances to their mom(saddle shapes, placement of some or missing saddles, and the sweet racing stripes), but, other than appearing so anerythristic, I would not consider them "exact duplicates". Then again, on that same line of thought, we had a definite set of twins last year that are truly identical in color, but vary slightly in pattern..... nothing to do with parthenogenesis, but show that duplicates may not be "exact".

I really appreciate your thoughts, Jeff. I had thought about parthenogenesis as well, but it would be hard to prove, I think. Your opinions make me feel less crazy for considering it, though.

As far as how much of what.... Well you and the Mrs. Dr. Van Atta may end up having to work that detail out... cause she is playing the attachment card. But, with an offer like that, there are several things my mad scientist mind can come up with, so we will see...... Talk to you soon...... :)

[The_Boaphile]

Pattern is variable. Clones do not necessarily have exactly the identical pattern. Just like your "twins" do not have identical pattern. That does not mean they are not identical twins though. Identical means they are genetically identical. Pattern is certainly genetically affected (or is it effected?) but it is also environmentally altered as well and to some extent random. I still think it is distinctly possible they could be clones of Mom. Could the fact that I guessed them all to be females be just dumb luck? I know I'm dumb but I am not lucky.

Finding out if they are clones would be easy enough but there might be some cost involved. Just get DNA fingerprinting done on Mom and the three anery appearing kids. That would be very interesting.

Jeff

[CCS]

Jesse, after seeing these pics, I am right in line with Jeff. Those are as anery as any one I've laid eyes on. You have something going on there, very, very cool.

Chris

[goofykid87]

you and your crazy litters... ;D maybe i should have you breed my 2 boas next year...lol. Thats pretty neat man.

[denny_rimes]

Parthenogenesis is a VERY interesting theory. However you look at it though....you sure are having some of the most interesting litters I've seen in quite a while!

Denny

[Panama_Red]

That never even entered my mind but it could be. Very interesting! I hope to see more pics as they develop. :'(

[Rowena]

What pretty babies! Wow I really like those!

Virginia

[beastie]

they definitely look anery, and Jeff's theory seems possible... either way, those are gorgeous boas, and i hope i have your luck in the future, Sojourn! Congrats!


bc

[prncslar03]

I learn more and more on here with every post I read, they are gorgeous! Congratulations!

~Lauren

[thunder]

well, a cheaper way to disprove (well, not for sure), but not prove, the parthinogenesis theory is to breed dad to another anery next year, see what pops out. also, you could talk to whoever produced him and see if either of his parents was a possible het. boas arent like corns, with also sorts of genes floating around, but you never know.