Instinct or Intelligence? Please reply

[EmsFather]

I am curious. How much intelligence does a snake actually have? Are their responses to certain stimuli an instinctual response or is it in some cases a learned behavior? I see our little guy Bobo do things that seem more like an intelligent choice rather than a snake behavior. With the brain the size of a pin head it seems unlikely that he could possess any type of limited intelligence but what do I know? I would love to find out just how developed their little brains are and how much intelligence, if any Boas have. Please reply and thank you in advance.

Bob

[Chad_Youngquist]

I am a firm believer in the fact that snakes do not feel emotion or have the wherewithal to show intelligence.  No matter how many times I ask my boas to set the parking brake when they park on a hill, they totally ignore me.

Seriously, though, I have a snake that acts in a seemingly smart way sometimes.  Several times I have put her on the floor and walked a few feet away and stopped.  She has followed me and begun to crawl up my leg.  Weird.  I don't know if she feels secure around me or not.  I don't know if its coincidence or not.  Just simply weird.

This behavior doesn't change my mind about the intelligence of boas.  I don't think they have the capacity.  My wife, on the other hand, thinks they like to snuggle and show affection.  Whatever, babe.

Chad Youngquist

[EmsFather]

With over 200 members, there has to be more opinions. I would love some input or theories about your own snakes. What do all of you think? Is your Boa smart or just an animal possessing normal instincts? Let's get this rolling.

Bob cwm1.gif cwm8.gif

[Erich_Gaertner]

I tend to agree with Chad. I think the behavior(s) we observe in our Boas have little to do with intelligence, but rather instinct. Their main drive in life is to eat, find safe shelter and to perpetuate their species. Granted our Boas are far removed from the wild, nevertheless they are still wild animals that are far from being domesticated. Having said that, it is my belief that Boas can and will associate certain external stimuli with certain behavior(s). Most notably Meal Time! I feed all my boas in their cages, the instant I go to open their cages they think it's time to chow down! They associate their cage being opened as meal time(needless to say, it's not a good idea to have the scent of rats on your hands when you go into their cages!) ;D This is definitely an example of Learned Behavior! Just my opinions on a pretty interesting subject! :)
Erich Gaertner
www.strictlyboas.com

[EmsFather]

Hey Erich,

Thank you for moving the post to the correct forum. I realized after I originally posted it that I was in the wrong section.


The original idea behind my post was to see what other people have experienced with their Boas. If not intelligence, perhaps little idiosyncrises they might display. I guess my next question to all members would be, Does your Boa do anything that you consider different from instinctual behavior? Does your Boa do anything unique? I would love to hear some good stories.

By the way, we now try and feed Bobo outside his tank / cage just to let him know his food is outside the tank. It's like taking him out for dinner...LOL. So far he's had 2 meals outside. So, let's hear some snake tales, excuse the expression...:-)

[Chad_Youngquist]

You know what?  Just for kicks, I'd like to hear about the meanest boa around.  All my snakes are fairly docile once they are handled.  I feed my snakes inside their closure due to ease, so I don't go waving my fingers in front of their faces when they have their heads poking out of hiding.  Once I pick them up, though, they're OK.

I would like to hear from anybody who thinks they have the meanest boa around.  I don't want to get off of Bob's topic, but I think it would add to the conversation.  And don't post a message about how you provoke your animal to anger.  I want to hear about naturally moody or mean snakes that we love despite their dispositions.

Chad Youngquist

[EmsFather]

Good topic Chad. Anything to talk about Boa behaviors is great. Hmmm... I see a potential TV Series with your idea...."When Good Boas Go Wild".....LOL

Bob

[morti]

I have a little female that was born 1/20/02... she is still a little thing, but she does the infamous Full Body Strike every time I try to get her out. She will wrap the last 1-2 inches of her tail around anything she can get and strike with everything she's got. If I put her on the floor or another flat surface with nothing to grab, she will still do the full body strike, but her whole body comes up off the ground.

This is the meanest boa I have ever heard of. :-)

-Your Sick Uncle Morti.

[Patrick]

I have a late '01 male guyana red tail that acts like a little rattler. He acts just as Morti described his to be except he will hold his mouth open the whole time and hissing as though his life's in danger. when I get him out with the hook he full body strikes whatever is in his reach almost dropping himself to the floor. I don't think he'll ever tame unfortunatley but I sure get a kick out of watching him. He's had three victims now :o

[EmsFather]

I didn't realize that some snakes, no matter how much TLC you give them remain biters. If our little Boa were to even look at my son in a funny way, my wife would evict me and the snake. Thank goodness I was fortunate in getting this calm Boa! My son thinks all Boas are docile because of the way he handles his Boa. It's a constant reminder to my son that Bobo is a snake and not a rope. My question to those who said their snakes are bite happpy is, are their any methods available to you to stop them from biting or is it a lost cause? I handle our snake for at least 30 minutes per day and my son handles him for about for about 15 minutes. I know for some of you who have numerous snakes, you do not have that luxury but maybe if you tried more handling on a daily basis, it could help. Just making a suggestion and by no means advising.

Also one of questions has been answered. It seems that like humans, snakes do possess some type of personality, whether it be a calm and even tempered one or an aggressive one. It's in their genes, I guess?

[Doug]

HI  Forum,
 I think them young boa's act on instinct and adrenalin,
when I have a young new boa they always give me the "S"posture telling me that they are protecting themselves if I get to close.. What i find works is to move the boa out of the "S" posture any way you can give them a push with a hook or a stick and then I scoop them up.
It usally works for me, I had a really intense Argie who tracked everything in the room she was about 5 feet and fairly large. After a while we reached a friendly agreement after I weaned her off live food,. This seemed to help her personality improve .I know my boa's like me holding them and seem to enjoy being out, they are nearly two, and I am the only human thats held them except for a Vet visit and petstore recruiting visit..
  They are special animals and what drives them works for me Doug cwm4.gif
yea and you try only to keep one,,, I dare ya

[morti]

Just to update ya'll... With a month of carefull handling, I have gotten F4 to be a little less agressive. She has not struck at anything but rats for quite some time. Here's hoping!

-Your Sick Uncle Morti.

[Steve_M.]

here's my mean boa story several years ago I bought a c.b.baby col. boa from a pet store a freind of mine owned, to be honest I don't remember if he was always mean but I could not take him out of the cage with out him trying to bite me and once he was out he only got worse I used a welders glove to get him out and had to hold him by the neck all the while he would have his mouth wide open and would just keep snapping I'm sure you may be thinking I handled him roughly but that's not the case I bought this boa because he had a very interesting pattern all his saddles formed perfect x's he had nice color and I realy wanted to breed him so I tryed to tame him down I tryed not useing the gloves or holding him by the neck he liked that much better cause then he could bite me this snake definately had a problem I gave him away at about 5ft. cause I just didnt want such a crazy snake who know's maybe he would of passed that attitude on to some of his offspring his mate whom I purchased around the same time received the same care and amount of handling and she was fine

[slkrik00]

I have had my boa for over a year now and he has never had a meal inside his cage yet i have a separate cage just for feeding him in and when he is in that cage he is ready to chow with the only exception being he wont eat a f/t rodent no matter what i do . :)

[PythonTamer]

The tale of two brothers...
I purchased a c.b. BCI a little while ago at the local pet store, and they only specialize in c.b. reptiles.  I bought one of two brothers.  Both were kept under the same circumstances in the pet store.  One was very calm, and the other bit me several times in rapid succession before I had a chance to say 'ouch' :-/  Guess which one I bought?  I was surprised because they both seemed to be living under similar circumstances and were from the same clutch.  I went back later and held the other one again, (I think it is still in the pet store), and he bit me several times again :-X  I felt sorry for him, because with that attitude not many people would be willing to buy him.  If I had more patience I would almost consider getting him, just to know he wouldn't be neglected...but that's the way it goes sometimes.
PT

[NavyHM]

Instinct or Intelligence.....hmm good question....
Well mine is intelligent, she can purchase rodents, cook dinner, and contrictict certain thing really well...wait no thats my wife!!!
In that case its definitively Instict!
:'(
(Hope my wife don't log on and read this post!!!) ???

[DaveC]

Not long ago, I learned of a gentleman at (I think anyway) the Univerity of Chicago who was doing research on snake intellegence. It goes like this: Previous experiments in this arena put snakes in a maze like a mouse to see if it could learn it's way through to find food. It couldn't so they were declared dumber than rats. But someone stepped in later and decided that rats live in tunnels and burrows, and have high metabolisms, so they are constantly running through tunnels in search of food. So, this experiment exploited one of their survival instincts to show their relative intellegence. A snake does not live in tunnels, nor does it have a high metabolism where it needs to constantly search for food. It is an opportunisic feeder that hides and waits for food to come to it. So an experiment was designed to exploit one of a snakes survival instincts: the need to hide. (continued)

[DaveC]

In this experiment, a large open area divided into quadrants was designed. One quadrant had a hole that the snake could crawl into. Corn snakes were released into the center, and a white flash card was held up in the quadrant that had the hole in it. Surprisingly, the response time of the snakes (that is, how long it took them to find the hole) decreased dramatically with the number of times that the trial was performed. This shows that snakes do have some amount of "intellegence", that is they can decide wher to go to get what they want. I beleive that this study also showed that snakes have the ability to grow neura matter throughout their lives, which is something that science had thought impossible. This study and the ability of snakes to grow neural matter was being applied to ulcimers disease, as I remember it.

[oOSpOOkYOo]

As for snake intelligence. I just moved to columbus ohio (from cleveland) and I was searching for a place to buy feeder mice. I found a place down the road called t-turtle pets. While I was in there I noticed on the lower level of some cages a large female. about 7 feet and very over weight about 60 lbs. She was a rescue from someone who obviousley didnt know how to feed a snake, but anyways. I noticed her heat lamp was out and she seemed to be looking for someone. I squated in front of her and she started tapping the area of screen just below her light. She wasnt rubbing like they do when they want out. She was litterally nudging me to look at her light. I thought it was the coolest thing. I obviousley told the owner and he put in a new bulb
Another thing is my baby boa oscar. Ive always thought he/she was a very over protective, thus a female. He always tries climbing towards me when someone else holds him. Anyways I got him popped when I was at t-turtle and found out he's a male. Even so he's my little guy and he seems to have human qualities somtimes. -sTEVE