heat mats slowly killing boas?

[clone]

I was just on a german website called boa-constrictors.com and the captive husbandry sectioned shocked me with the information it contained.

First, it claims that heat mats slowly kill boas by drying them out. They say che is the best heat source.

Second, They say feed newborns every 10-14 days. Thats crazy, neonates should be fed every 4-5 days.

There are more eye opening care advice.

It's interesting to see the differences in boa care in europe and the states.

[GuitarGirl]

Do heat mats kill boas?...Is that why my boa is so...dry...Oh god...am I killing her?

[Siri_Lin]

Well there are two things I can think of. First there might be a translation error. (It does happen from time to time.) But it sounds like probably not. It may just not be a good website. (A Professor of mine best phrased the information on the net as a swamp with the occasional island of good information).

As for heat mats drying snakes out......not an issue if you are keeping the humidity up where it should be. Heat always dries things out..that's part of the properties of heat. But so long as you're providing the proper humidity levels and drinking water, it should not be a problem.

The only other thing I can say about heat mats is make SURE you know what temp the cage is on the opposite side of that heat mat (if it's under the cage or taped to the back.) Basically always know what the temp is of the surfaces in the cage that the snake can touch. Burns are hard to treat and very dangerous for the snake (high chances of infection), and usually scar (which does lower the value of the animal and the "sell appeal"). I learned the hard way

Siri

[Steve_M.]

I don't believe heat mats kill boas but when you use heat pads the air directly over the heated area will not be as humid as the rest of the cage or room I don't know how much of a difference there is or how large that dry "envelope" actualy is though

[Doug]

HI,
I ve read his post before, and some heat mats get very, very hot.   I measured the surface temp with a thermometer glued to the glass on the floor and it hit 186 deg in about ten mins.without substrate 40 critter.. So all my floor mats are tied into a thermostat. to cycle them when the ambients hit around 82-84 deg. The floor hits about 110 degrees under the newspaper and then cools gradually down to 86.The GUyana in the larger hide is directly over a Large UTH and also under an overhed heat mat.this is the favorite hide for digesting. the second hide is only heated from above and tend to be about 4 degrees cooler, great for cooling down if your to warm. The cycling helps prevent the over heating. I noticed my snakes were avoid the heat mat area.Now they love it and wil cram themselves into one hide together post feeding, gotta get bigger pots.. hehehe   Another problem with che's is that they must be enclosed in the cage to prevent over drying of the air, and will need some type of protective cover to prevent burning if the animal becomes nosy. The over head mats came from big apple and are called desert rays and use very little electricity and are slightly warm to the touch but feel like warm sunshine in the cage. no lite. and are very cheap compaired to those heat pro pads..
http://photo.redtailboa.org/albums/my-pets/Guyana_Palace.sized.jpg

Another trick is to safely cover that contained che and here's why
http://photo.redtailboa.org/albums/my-pets/Super_Snake.sized.jpg
The above cage has cobra mats and two che's  only use one  che at a time,all tied into one thermostat that cycles at 84 deg.
 This maintains the humidty and heat exactly where I set the thermostat. The floor under the hides is a little warmer but no problems yet.
The best indicator of correct temps and humidty is complete sheds and normal feeding and poo's
 I respect Herman .S. but he's talking about extremes that occur when we don't use the thermostat. and thermometer to monitor temps and humidty.
 the humidty/temp thing came from wallmart and cost 18 bucks been going strong for a year on the same battery and holds the highest and lowest temps for 24 hours real useful to see if your che is over heating,

Be sure your thermostat  probe is near the floor it dosen't work correctly
if its to close to the che or on the floor over the UTH will cycle the heat off I was only hitting ambients of 80 degrees s3.gif until I moved the thermostat thingy near the floor now it take a min or two  to cycle off....psps i  glued the second  thermometer temp sensor to the floor  above the UTH and thats when I spotted the extremes during  the mats being plugged in without a thermostat. ps I e-mailed a picture of this wooden cage( the one with che's) to Herman,S. a couple years ago its exactly like his cages, his only negative comment was the air vents are to high up and this will cause heat loss.. I fixed that by closing down the vents with duck tape to only allow a smaller amount of air exchage .. I've raised a Guyana and now have a hog island using that cage. they all thrived in it, it has a large cobra mat under the floor and che's  all tied into one thermostat thru a floor strip with surge protector ( cheap one at lowes) that way you don't need three thermostats cause the only give you one outlet per thermostat, just dont' exceed the wattage for that device mine is 400 watts, and Iam way under that.. If your using a heat mat without a thermostat you may be drying your snake out a bit.
 if you have questions e-mail
  sorry  about by message lenght. b24.gif
  doug s31.gif
   hope this help's b30.gif
  doug cwm15.gif

[morti]

That page belongs to a guy named hermann that says a lot of things for pure shock value. Keep an eye on your humidity levels and everything should be ok.

-Your Sick Uncle Morti. s32.gif

[cb76]

actually i think hermann is an awesome guy and very knowlegable on boa constrictors. he is strict in his care, and i totally agree with him. i dont think its fair to say he is shocking people.

we have spoken many times, and i agree with almost everything there on his site.

first off- feeding your boas every 4-5 days is power feeding and is dangerous to health of your boa. FACT! ask any breeder here.

your baby is good on a diet of a properly sized rodent every 7-10 days. i personally feed my collection every 10! 4-5 is ridiculous. i also get a bowel movement in that period of time, which is very good for the animal.

2nd, heat mats do do that, so do che's and any other heat source.

believe it or not, MOST people do not know hot to properly care for their boas. i do plenty of rescues and rehabs and have seen it over and over again. i am sure we can all tell horror stories on that aspect.

like morti said- watch the water and the humidity and you'll be fine. most of all- watch the temps. some of these things are made to operate constantly at 100+ degrees.

as for che's- i do agree with them being the best over all heat source. as with most things in herpetoculture- it goes with whats ever working for the owner of the particular animals.

i say this though... most people jump on the band wagon simply because they read other people do it. me, i have litterally tried every combo of heating and humidity there is and for me, the che's are better.

you have to worry about more than floor heat- period. you have to worry about the entire air heat and humidity in the enclosure.

heat mats dont do it. i use a thick layer of substrate and it just doesnt penetrate through. plus i use large tanks and my babies are all over the place- high and low. whats floor heat gonna do when my babies are up in the branches.

a che gives me my 88 hot, 80 cool that i need and best of all- gives me a 92 degree hot spot- right underneth the emitter.

later!

[Sojourn]

Pease don't flame me for asking a stupid question,but what is a che ??? ... my best guess... a ceramic heat emmitter?(sp)

TIA

[woodman]

Pease don't flame me for asking a stupid question,but what is a che ??? ... my best guess... a ceramic heat emmitter?(sp)

TIA

Yep. You got it b27.gif(emitter)

[morti]

I just wrote a long and drawn out list of reasons why I don't listen to Hermann, but I realized that all I am doing is bashing him which I refuse to do.

Will, you are absolutely right on all the points you made. I agree fully with everything you listed. I do not agree, however, that UTH sources are killing snakes.

Just my oppinion.

[surfimp]

I keep the room in which my baby (erm, snake) is caged heated to a constant 82*F-86*F (it's a small room w/space heater) and then have Flexwatt underneath about 1/2 of my Boaphile cage. It's a taller cage (24" tall) so it takes a bit more effort to heat all of the air within it, and it's more susceptible to ambient (room) air temperature than some of the shorter cages - at least in my opinion.

The Flexwatt (two 11" x 24" pieces side by side on the left half of my 48" wide cage) is of course controlled by a thermostat (Helix DBS-1000) while the space heater is controlled by another Helix thermostat (the 1500W model). Cost a lot of $$$ to get setup but I most likely won't have to buy another heating related item (unless I get more snakes, of course!), and it's pretty much idiot-proof, which is really good in my case ;)

I use a Raytek Mini-Temp heat gun to check surface temps, as I run newspaper and was not going to have my Flexwatt busting out 110*++ surface temps simply in order to get my gradient; this is how I ended up heating the entire room - otherwise, the surface temps got into what I considered to be the "dangerous" area, and even though my cage also has a shelf I opted for heating the ambient room temp rather than trying to do it all with the Flexwatt. Surface temps typically stay below 100* even on "full blast" from the UTH.

I've got a large glazed ceramic water bowl over the Flexwatt and my humidity (measure on top of the shelf) is a consistent 55-60% or greater. I also mist as soon as I see my sweet little baby start to darken up and act like she's going to shed, and do that once to twice a day until she has finished. Had a perfect 100% or 98% shed every time so far with that system.

So, to reign in a long story: I keep my ambient air temp in the room and the cage very consistent, fresh water available constantly, and the enclosure humidity high. A Boaphile cage makes this all possible, and I do not worry about roasting my snake over the Flexwatt (aka Under Tank Heater or UTH) as mentioned on Hermann's site. However, with different setups I believe this is certainly possible, and of course each enclosure and room environment requires a different heating system for optimum success.

It's all about trial and error. Just make sure you do ALL of your errors BEFORE you put a living animal into a cage from which it cannot escape!!!

[Doug]

HI,
One last thought , them glass tanks are very difficult to have ambient temps at or near the desired without cooking the warm side. The more heat you use to heat a glass cage the more humidty you loose. So check both heat and humidty. Ive raised baby snakes in forty breeder tanks, it was tricky though. s3.gif
Good luck
review the care sheets all questions are answered there.
http://www.redtailboas.com/carelinks/carelinks.html
doug s15.gif

[drthsideous]

Hi my name is Jeff I'm new here. I deff. agree that che's are the best, UTH suck, they barely heat my enclosure's at all. The only problem I have found with the CHE's is that because they themselves are really hot, they have melted the metalic elements in some of my fixture's and fused with them. So far they are the only thing I have found that can heat my cages to the desired temps without drying out my enclosers.