The Ultimate Substrate!! NEW!

[oOSpOOkYOo]

Well ever since oscar's rescent mite infestation I have been looking for a better substrate. His quarentine has white papertowels and I can just tell he feels too out in the open.
I was at t-turtle, a local petstore in southern columbus, ohio, and I noticed in all of their cages they had like... grey rocks? Is the only way I could describe it. I found out the stuff is called Sorba-Cell (i'm pretty sure, im at school and I dont have the bag on me, duh)- it's not rocky by the way- it's like hard, but soft, and in little gerbil food sized pieces. This stuff seems almost too good to be true!

Pros:
*It obsorbs all spills and poo messes
*Its made to be put in litter box too so it's designed to obsorb all oders
*It doesnt need to be changed NEARLY as often at wood substrates
*Its made from recycled black and white newspaper- so no chance it being packed with bugs- unlike :-X ASPEN!
*Flushable!! <-- my fav pro.
*If your animal makes a mess remove the dirty area and replace with fresh, only the dirty area that is.
*It's EDIBLE!- I thought the stores method of testing this was very crewel but it ended up being safe in the end. They would put the stuff on the food of garder snakes and then worked up to more expensive boas and kings and it had no effect on the snake- it was just passed once again like excess fur.
*It smells good- Unscented, but like everything unscented it does have a distinct smell.
*Unlike sheets of newspaper and paper towels it offers the animal a place to burrow and hide.
*It contains a nuetralizing agent for any excess newpaper ink.

Cons:
*I have yet to find any yet!

If anyone has any more in depth experience, let us know. The store claimed to be the only place that sells it in ohio.

-sTEVE

[oOSpOOkYOo]

Wait! I just found 1 con!
*It's quite expensive! A bag to fill 1.5 40 gallon long cages is like 25$ after tax.

-sTEVE

[gibson]

thats really not that bad, if you think about it. Ya there are cheeper things to use like wood or mulch. But that you still have to but mite stuff. If you use astroturf its like $7-20 to use on a 15-40gal tank. so really if you have a smaller tank like for a new boa like a 30gal than its not that bad beacuse it will last a long time so u don't have to buy more like turf or wood. The expence would really come in if you had to fill a 4x2x2 or larger home. Just MO

[oOSpOOkYOo]

I was at schol when I typed that the name of the stuff is Cell Sorb Pro. -sTEVE

[oOSpOOkYOo]

I just found a HUGE plus!!! I just got around to installing the new substrate and I misted it down like I would any other. It absorbed the bit of water like said and as the heat pads heated up it cooked the water out create and nice! cycle of constant 80% humidity. But the substrate doesnt feel wet. It feels dry to the touch, but the air in the cage is nice and moist like a northeast ohio summer, lol. -sTEVE

The stuff you are describing sounds alot like a product called Yesterdays News, which is made from recycled newpapers. It is made for cat litter boxes. If what you are using is the same thing as Yesterdays News, then I would warn you to get rid of that stuff right away.

A vetranarian tells me that 1. this stuff is an excellent breeding ground for mold, mildew, and bacteria and 2. expands when ingested (if your snake swallows some of it with it's food item) and can cause a fatal impaction.

I would stick with plain news papers (not recycled pellets of news papers), or cypress mulch, or aspen bedding. These are the substrates that are recommended by the vet's that I use, and that is what I go by. (That and my fellow herpers recommendations, that is!!)

Just my $.02

[oOSpOOkYOo]

I explained how the pet store litterally has fed pellets to some of their cheaper pets without a hitch. I would say each pepple is no more than 1/8 on an inch thick and 1/16 wide. and i've see it completely soaked and it's not much bigger, and it also is very squishy, so when its wet its compacted even smaller than when it was dry. I still believe its the best stuff out there, i found a wholesaler for it!.. If anyone is interested in a 32 quart (large sand bag size) let me know. Btw about mildew, I mist the stuff once a week and it holds in the moisture and then it's baked back out by the heat. Great for constant humidity!!! -sTEVE

[oOSpOOkYOo]

btw the stuff wasnt made to be put in litter boxes, it just happens to obsord oders and wetness enough to be used. It was designed to be used for reptiles, small animals, and birds. BTW that bag is a 9 month small animal supply, like a hamster or somthing. It's about a 4-5 month supply for a 421D. Well I havnt changed mine yet in a month. I well let you know if it sours at all. Its designed so you only clean the dirty areas... -sTEVE

[techbota]

Please do keep us informed. Im using calci sand but after the snakes first bowl movement I figured that would turn out to be very expensive. I had to remove about 1 1/2 cups of contaminated sand!!

[oOSpOOkYOo]

I have yet to find anything wrong with this substrate, and i've been using it almost 1.5 months. I do not like the calcisand because i've heard of too many people having their boas get a couple grains in their nostriles and then needing them to be surgically removed. -sTEVE

[techbota]

I did a search on google to see if I can find any of this stuff and nothing came up for Sorba-Cell

[oOSpOOkYOo]

I typed the original post at school the day after I bought it so the name was embedded in my memory yet. It IS called Cell-Sorb Pro. -sTEVE

[hamster]

I just swapped out my aspen bedding today with this stuff called "ASPEN SUPREME" (aspen pellets). This stuff is awesome... when it gets wet it just breaks apart rather than expanding...

out of 200 parts per water or something like that, it ranks 195% absorbance where the newspaper pellets rank 85% or so...

the stuff doesn't have as potent aeroma as regular aspen bedding and resists mold and poop smells better. plus its alot easier to keep it out of your water dishes..

It is also very pleasing to the eye... check it out!

[techbota]

heres the home site for the product.
Its actually cell sorb plus. I couldnt find cell sorb pro.

http://www.cell-sorb-plus.com/home.htm

thnx for your help

[techbota]

After reading the information on the site Im wondering if using this stuff might mess up the snakes sheds? Its supposedly highly asorbant. Which makes me wonder if it might make it harder to keep the humidity level up in the tank. Have you noticed any problems in that area?

[oOSpOOkYOo]

Tech-
Actually I was thinking that after I installed it, but I misted it down before I put in the boa- as to collect any extra dust. Well The humidity went up and the misting disapeared, but the humidity stayed up. Because the wet pellets expanded a bit and then the heat cooked the water out and then the humidity was staying at a NICE 75%+ w/out wet to the touch substrate. Last friday my snake was blue, and OMG was he blue. I seriousley could not see his eyes AT ALL. Many people believe in the theroy that the higher the humidity during shed phases- the more milkey their skin is when produced that chemcial to release the old skin. My snake has has his last 2 sheds in pieces, this will be his first with cell sorb. I will let you know how it turns out. -sTEVE

[oOSpOOkYOo]

I forgot to mention about those aspen pellets. Aspen is aspen is aspen in any form. If that stuff is ingested during feeding it IS lethal to your reptile. -sTEVE

[techbota]

Mine just shed and it took 3 days and came off in pieces ;)

[oOSpOOkYOo]

woah! that doesnt sound good, did you use eztra humidity through his/her blue phases and such? What substrate are you using? I am going back to my apartment tomarrow morning. There should be a lil present (hopefully no poo) for me in oscar's cage. -sTEVE

[techbota]

Im using aspen. Wet sphagnum moss. In a 20 gallon long glass aquirium. I also insulated it. I cant seem to keep the humidity right. I mist him every day. Either its too much humidity or Im cooking it off$@$@#

One day Ill be able to get rid of that glass tank it really sucks!!

I think it soooo long because my boa never seems to move much it goes in its hide and stays there!!!

[oOSpOOkYOo]

BOO YA! I walked in- ran to his cage, and 1 giant piece of shed, ill post post shed pics later. -sTEVE :'(

[strauss16]

Just to add to the conversation: first of all i would advise against a sand substrate for a BCI or BCC. It does not keep a good humidity and can become well above recomended temperature depending on the heating device. The Cell-Absorb plus does not sound terrible, but until definite results are out i would not feed on it or use it for my entire enclosure. It is likely that if it is easily ingested that it is greatly somposed or starch like products. While harmless in small quanities it is still not good for you or your snake. It would be the same as you eating boxing "peanuts", used in packaging. Both are very absorbant and you are capable of eating one, but eating a box is not a good idea. All i am saying is that you should be catious with the substrate and that paper, although not asthetically pleasing is a reliable alternative.
strauss16

[techbota]

BOO YAA I finally found the stuff in my area. I had to go through the wholesaler to find a store in my area that used it for their pets but did not sell it. BUT with some serious pleading I talked them into selling me a bag. I love the stuff. It looks great and remains dry to the touch after you spray it down. It does have some dust to it but after I spryed it down that went away. My boa seems to like it as well.

[oOSpOOkYOo]

It is likely that if it is easily ingested that it is greatly somposed or starch like products. 

I mentioned in a post somewhere on here that the substrate does not cling to wet mouse fur or fluffy fur. Like with aspen I was armed to the teeth with hemostats, but I do still sit and watch and will remove anything I see-- I have yet to see the stuff cling to anything.

BOO YAA I finally found the stuff in my area.

DONT YOU LOVE THE SMELL! lol I sold 3 bags to my gf's sis's bf, mainly because the nice smell, well also he bought a 4 ft suri male and a female albino burm... that thing is SO calm, i want one now, lol. Good luck with the substrate and report any input back to this post for us, ok? =D

-sTEVE

p.s. rats love it too, got these lil breeders at the all ohio show 20 weanlings for 20$:
[hr]

[techbota]

That is one nice looking boa!! It almost looks albino.

[Atom]

http://www.cell-sorb-plus.com/bedding.htm

You can buy online here:

http://www.leithpetwerks.com/Litter/CS200.html
40# for $21.39

Keep up the info on this because I just got my first ball python and I'm ready to purchase a boaphile cage and I'm deciding on what to use for substrate. Thanks!

[techbota]

Well its been great for me so far. I had to build a cage for my snake though. With a glass cage nothing really workedn but cell-sorb in my new cage keeps my humidity between 50-60 constant.

My snake is just starting to turn gray so I will let you know the results as soon as I find out.

It is definatly cleaner than anything else ive used and he seems to like it.

It also looks great!!!

No more smell either.

I also use it on my 2 corn snakes and I feed the big one in the cage and nothing noticible sticks to the fur at all.

It hold water well and I only have to spray down the cages every 2-3 days now instead of everyday.

All in all im very happy.

What I did for my area is I found the distributer for my state which is listed on his web site. Then I called them and I found out who had it in my area. Thats the only way it worked because no one sold it in my area but there were pet shops that used it for their animals in displays and they agreed to suply me with the stuff :)

If you get it keep us informed as well. I am starting to think this stuff rocks.

Oh one more thing when the snake makes a movement this stuff easily contains it. I have had the stuf in the cage and havent even come close to having to replace it.....just spot clean. What a difference this stuff makes!!

[oOSpOOkYOo]

Its great, I've had it in my boa's cage for almost 2.5 months. HE LOVES IT! He hides in it and throws it on himself. He never poops in his substrate, so I haven't ever changed his cage yet. I just cleaned out all of my rat's cages with it. It really keeps the rat smell down to a minimum, and everyone says that the boa cage smells really nice. Like fresh newspaper. The only reason I had to change it today in my mice cage was because she likes to store food EVERYWHERE! I still have yet to find a bad thing about it. I spilled some today on the kitchen tile and it swept right up easily, so that was nice. Please anyone who has any input, please share. -sTEVE

[oOSpOOkYOo]

CHECK OUT WHAT I FOUND!

Well I come back up north for valentines day, and to get more cell sorb. I goto the store and all they had were 5lb bags for 5$!!!! I was absolutley furious!!! So i'm ranting and complaing outloud, lol, and I look under the racks of bedding and see HUGE brown bags, i've seen em in petstores before and just thought they were bags of aspen, but then I saw a gold cel sorb logo!!!!!! I peed my pants. I got 40lbs (1 brown bag) for 20$(like 21.50 after tax)!!!!!!!!! Down south in columbus they were charging 30$ for a 15lb bag!!!!!! This felt sooooo goood......... lol..... -sTEVE

[techbota]

Pics of my new cage with cell sorb and the awesome one peice shed I finally got!!!

[techbota]

with complete electrical in pvc with switches :)

[techbota]

this stuff rocks and looks great!!!

[techbota]

My baby!! She is about 3.5 feet

[techbota]

And last but not least THE perfect cell sorb shed ;) I Look goofy due to resizing.

[oOSpOOkYOo]

that does look reel purdy in there with the grey/wood color scheme. Has that boa had a history of bad sheds? -sTEVE

[techbota]

Yes he wasnt doing to good in the shedding department.

I now have silk vine thourhout the cage:)

[petguy]

I heard that cell sorb uses gypsum in ther product for odor control!!!!!

Gypsum is a natural binder that some rabbit people use whenever their bunnies get "loose" to firm up the stools.

I don't think useing a binding agent around snakes or reptiles is a good idea...

If you like newpaper you would love Carefresh Unlike newspaper carefresh has been sanitized and with newspaper you may not know where it has been and if there are any contaminents on it from storage ar handling.

[Rowena]

I dont post here much, read more than anything, but I do have to comment on this.

Regardless of the fact, you dont SEE this stuff sticking to the rodent, I cannot BELIEVE you will take the risk of something happening to your boa! I dont care if a PET STORE did a test on if it hurts a snake or not. That is not good enough. You should care more for your reptile, then to take a pet stores word for something.

If you use ANY kind of loose substrate, you should not feed your reptile in its enclosure. Your just asking for something to happen and a huge vet bill or dead snake. If thats ok with you, then fine, but I hope others really think about it before trying it.

I personally care more for my boas than that. I use aspen shavings, which they love, and they get fed in a feeding tub, with newspaper. I refuse to risk their health, and I would hope anyone with a boa would feel the same way.

Virginia

[Randy_T.]

Why don't you lay the newspaper down over the aspen and feed them in the enclosure? It is easier then feeding out of the enclosure, safer (for you and them) and you aren't stuck handling an animal that has just eaten, which could if something happened cause trauma to their stomach or other internal organs. Just curious.. You don't want to risk their health if you can avoid it right?

[dmog68]

As far as feeding my snakes in there own cage - I have never done it , or would never do it, no matter what substrate. I don't want my snakes to think that when there cage is opened, that food is coming in, not to mention the lingering rodent smell that can last for awhile. I put my snakes in seperate feeding tubs, and this gives me the time to thuroughly clean there cages while they're eating. I don't think they get over-handled while moving them back to there clean cages.
After they eat, I spay them in warm water to clean off any rodent odor, or in case they slid thru there poo. I've never had a problem handling them for the few seconds in transport. I find it relativly an easy task.

[boxmanipi]

For my snakes I like newspaper. It's cheap, easy to change, and there is no health risks. Yes I know it's not beautiful but for all the good things about it I can over look the one draw back.

[jbabel]

I use unused newspaper rolls in my cages. I get The rolls from work here at the newspaper in tucson arizona. They are a little over two feet in width so they work great in my boaphile cages. You can roll out how much you want depending on how long your cages are. You can get these (end rolls) from any local newspaper company. They normally give them away once a week. I also feed my snakes in a seperate container and then place them back in there cages. I have never had any problems doing this.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v389/jbabel/Pictures074.jpg

Feeding container
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v389/jbabel/ZeusEating3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v389/jbabel/Buddy.jpg
You can see how much the cats like to check out the snakes.

[Rowena]

Thats easy Randy. Because both my girls tend to coil the newspaper up with their rat. Which, if it was sitting on aspen, would mean getting shavings on their food.

Neither one of my girls show any feeding aggression after they have eaten. They know once they are done, they go back to their cage. When they are bigger, I will have feeding tubs that will fit inside their permanent enclousure, that they will be fed in. Then they can come out on their own.

And when I take them out of their tub, it is sitting right to their cage. I pick them up gently by the neck and tail and set them in. Which is what numerous other boa owners told me to do, before I go them.

To me, feeding on loose substrate is just asking for trouble. But to each his own. If you dont see a problem with it, thats fine. I would imagine there is a risk with anything we do with our boas, but one of the bigger ones, that was stressed to me, was to NEVER feed on loose substrate, no matter what it was. Just like, its better to not feed in the enclosure, since the snake may come to associate your hand with food.

Virginia

[Randy_T.]

You are right there is risk with everything we do with them.. But one thing I think you may have been mislead regarding is the risk of feeding associated bites when an enclosure is opened.. To give an example of the average "good" husbandry of any random boa the enclosure will be opened and accessed atleast 4-5 times a week, whether it be for spot cleaning, changing water, misting, feeding etc.. So now if someone feeds their boa once a week the enclosure is opened and accessed 1 time, while water should be replaced atleast every other day (3-4 times a week just for water compared to 1 time a week for feeding) If someone has an animal that builds an association with the enclosure being opened and feeding it is because they are not providing proper husbandry for their animals. I have posted a much longer post on this before, so I won't go into it to much..

And as you said to each their own. Everyone can be viewed as being "wrong" regardless on the techniques that are used, and the personal stand point of the person viewing it...

I agree with Randy.  I have a piece of cardboard cut out to cover about half of the cage.  Put in the cardboard on top of the Aspen. Throw the rat/s on the cardboard....simple.  When they move off the cardboard, pull it out.

Also, I have been a pressman, printing newspapers for 18 years, and would tell you folks some things about newspaper.
The paper is bleached, with chlorine ( makes it white ) then, as it goes through the press, it runs through many rollers. These rollers are constantly cleaned with press wash. Press wash is a petrolium based product, like gas, but not as strong. Some of the rollers are copper rollers. The "coppers" are treated daily with an etching compound that is a known carcinogen. Etching compound is illegal in California for that reason, but used everywhere else America. The water, that cleans the plates on a press, is treated with another chemical to correct conductivity and PH. The black ink is petrolium based too.
Kinda sounds like a toxic environment doesn't it?
It's common for pressman of many years to die of cancer.
There is no way the company that makes that bedding removes any of it. It would be WAY too expensive.
I would NEVER put any animal I cared about on ANY newspaper product, period.
Anytime I see a boa on newspaper with the black, grungy belly look from the ink I wanna cry...

[Bruin]

I have to agree with Sir_Pent... That smell...you just KNOW it's not organic. ...but we know Pine & Cedar MAY be organic, but they're (historically) lethal to snakes.

Guys-- This is an ART. We are dealing with living things with different tolerances for every little thing: Heat, humidity, odor, tannic acid (From Cedar & Pine...) etc.

I have a thread on the "Caging" section, (Before I realized that the "Caging" section was for "Boaphile Caging"... Sorry! ;D) where I am looking for a decent, absorbent, humidity-holding, wood-oriented substrate, and after 2 years of searching, I think that there simply IS no such thing. [x] causes cancer, [p] can get lodged in their nostrils, [q] stinks, [y] is lethal if ingested...I'm completely frustrated. Completely. All I know about substrate is that I am in at least 2 ways completely dissatisfied with everything I've tried. Is there a list-- a cheat sheet, of sorts, of the pros and cons, here? Anyone?