'Breeding Het For Albino Boas?????

[Brandon]

??? cwm8.gif

hey there guys.
i was wondering.
i cannot afford full albino boas yet, so i was wondering that if i buy a pair that is het for albino, and i breed them , will i get a portion of the babies being albino???

i've seen a pair for sale on Bob Clarks site, even though i know jeff is the best, but i just cant afford to import the albinos just yet, so i will have to settle for one less expensive.

so do u think if i breed 2 boas that r het for albino, i will get maybe 1 out of 4 babies being albino???

let me know what u think...thanks a mill.

[Constrictor]

answere is DEPENDS>>>>>>
if they are only 50%hets ,you will only get all 100%hets no albinos.
but if they are proven 100%hets u will get albinos yes,along with 100%hets,

[Brandon]

thanks for the info bro.
i am thinking about getting a pair of hets from Bob Clark, not too sure if they r 50% hets or 100% hets yet.

will just have to wait and see.
thanks again.

[Constrictor]

your gonna buy them without knowing if there 50-or 100??????bad move,,being 50 only means that there possible hets,,,,,100 means they are for sure hets,,
im sure bob will inform you on what your buying ,make sure u ask
p.s u cant tell by looking at them

[Brandon]

yeah i know, i just have to wait a while because Bob is on away on holiday somewhere and some other guy has been replying his email.and this bloke doesnt know if they r 50% or 100%.
all that he said was from their experience,if u take those het for albino babies, and breed them together , 1 out of every 4 will be albino.
so i reckon that it must be about 50% het.

the het for albino boas r not the nicest looking boas, but what comes out of them is what we want right???

but i hope that i can get ones that r 100% het for albino.
then i will be the firts person in South Africa to get Albino Boas.
cool hey. ;D 8) cwm11.gif

[Erich_Gaertner]

Hey Guys,
Sorry if I come off sounding like a Know it All(I clearly am NOT ;)), but you got this 50% het thing messed up! A 50% possible het means that a particular animal has a 50% chance of being a het. These are produced from a normal to het breeding. A 100% het is just that, a boa that is 100% het for Albinism. These are produced from an Albino to normal breeding. If you breed two 100% hets to each other, theoretically you will produce 25% albinos or 1 out of 4. Hope this clears things up for you guys :)!
Erich

[Constrictor]

UMM ERICH THATS BACICLY WHAT I SAID,,, cwm13.gif

[morti]

Now I'm going to be the one to appologize for sounding like a knowit all. ;-) And this is for Brandon's clarification more than anything... I am basically going to say what Erich said, but I'm just going to say it differently.

Either an animal is het or it is not.  There is no way to look at an animal and say "Yup... It's a Het"  That's where the percentages come in.  If I say that an animal is 66% Het I am not saying that it is only partly het... That means  that it has a 2 out of 3 chance of being het (66% chance).  

If it turns out that you get lucky and both animals are het this is what your offspring will be:
1/4 of the babies will be albino.
3/4 of the babes will be 66% chance het for albino.

If you are only mildly lucky and only one of the boas is het (and no, there is no good way to know which is which) this is what you will get:
All of your babies will be 50% chance het for albino

If your luck is as good as mine and neither snake is het, here's what you will get:
100% completely normal babies.

I have finally figured out a good way to post punnett squares so if you want to see how I get these numbers, let me know.

Good luck!
-Morti.

[redtailboas]

Morti let me take one point of yours and extend it just a little, and maybe this will clarify how it works.

If both animals are 100% het for albino then this is what your offspring will be:

Let's take a litter of 20 babies as an example

1/4 of the babies will be albino.   So  there are 5 albinos.
1/4 of the babies will be normal.  So there are 5 normals.
1/2 of the babes will be 100% het for albino.  So there are 0 hets.

Here is where the 66% possible het comes from.  There is no way to tell which of the 15 non albino babies are truly het.  Because they all "appear" to be normal babies.  So we have to include the 10 hets and 5 normals into a group of 66% possible het for albinos.

2 out of 3 babies of the remaining 15 are het for albino.  So you have a 66% chance of getting one that is het and a 33% chance of getting a normal baby.

Hopes this helps.  You are playing the odds a little, but what a way to get albinos.  ;D

[Erich_Gaertner]

Thanks Clay and Morti for elaborating and giving a much more thorough explanation than I! Constrictor, relax I wasn't picking on you or Brandon! Just trying to help out!
Erich

[Brandon]

;D
hey there Eric, i know that u not picking on me cause this is one site where nobody is here to make the others feel like crap or anything close to that....thats whta i dig about this site...everybody here loves boas, and thats what it is all about.

thanks to morti and clay as well for the info....i just have to elaborate a little as well.

here in South Africa, blood tests on snake cost about R160 per snakes thats about $10 US per snake.
from that blood test they will be able to tell u what illnesses the snake has and if u like they do a genetic test which will tell u if the boa has albino blood in her or not.
its quite a nice thing hey.
they can pick up almost anything from the blood tests .....well thats what the guys at the lab say.
anyway , thanks again for the info.
hey clay,by the way,
u got kahl strain albinos on ur site right??
is ur explanation above ur experience in breeding het for  albinos.
thnx again  guys, uve been a real help.

so u guys reckon that if i take those het for albinos from Bob Clark...then in about 2 years time when i breed them, South Africa will have its first Albino Boas.
thats quite cool.
i hope that it comes through for me.
here in SA there r way too many breeds of boas that people havent seen.
hopefully i will be then one who can be the South African version of Jeff Ronne and CLay English he he.
cwm32.gif cwm32.gif
take care guys.

[Constrictor]

sorry,,didnt wanna sound rude,,
and now that i look at it,i exslained it wrong the first time,,so listen to erich,morti,and clay.there right.
sorry again for sounding rude
cwm4.gif cwm4.gif cwm4.gif cwm27.gif ;D

[morti]

Blood tests for genetic variences brandon? That is a snazzy idea, but I have never heard of such... and I was really close to being a microbiology major in school. That settles it... I'm calling my vet tonight! ;-)

-Morti, Like that,

[Brandon]

hey there Constrictor.u were not rude at all bro.
i promise.
sorry if i made it sound like u were rude.

and hey morti....go for it man, study the microbiology stuff.
a buddy of mine is a game ranger here in South Africa....he works in the Kruger National Park.
he is the one who told me about the tests being able to pick up whether ur snake is carrying albino genes or not.
it can also tell if ur snake has been cross bred or whether it is true blood.

he says that its all got to do with the structure of the cells or something like that.
so give ur vet a call or maybe a scientist at on of the medical research labs .they should be able to tell u.
thanks for all the info guys.

speak to u soon.

[Minus_1]

8) I think Pete Kahl is getting into the DNA testing area with his piebalds... dont quote me, but if you're really curious, you might drop him an E-mail, or a phone call and do some talking with him...

[morti]

I was recently reading an article by him about genetic testing for pybald... I think I will give him a ring and see if we can come up with some genetic markers for the albino trait.

[Brandon]

that sounds like a plan bro.
be sure to let us know how it goes.
it is a bit too expensive for me to call from South Africa.
anyway, hope to hear from u soon.

[Acco_Asphyxia]

This has nothing to do with the topic but, Brandon, is there a big market for snakes down in South Africa? Do you find a lot of snakes in pet stores and stuff? I have a buddy who came to Canada from Johannesburg SA and he owned an odd kingsnake that he didn't even know what the species was(I showed him a billion pics of kingsnakes and he couldn't match it to a pic), so there are snakes for sale, but are boas big there?


More about his kingsnake:
He told me it had the pattern of a rock python on a cylindrical body of a kingsnake and the pet store owner told him it was venomous. He knew kingsnakes weren't venemous so he bought it, and now were not even sure if it was a kingsnake. He says it was VERY agressive!!

[Brandon]

hey there Acco.
there r lots of pet shops here that specialise in reptiles, but most of them still deal in the birds and Koi fish.
pet shops r only starting to stock snakes now.
most of the pet shop owners...apart from those who specialise in Herps....dont even know the basics about owning a snake.
most of the big sellers here r private breeders.
in the past rats snakes and kingsnakes were the most widely sold snake here in SA, but boas seem to be becoming the favourite here along with Taiwanese Rat Snakes.
two of my buddies and myself have been trying to get the boa market to boom here in SA like it is there in the states.
but the people here still got a long way to go before we reach the level that u guys r on.
i recently put a post on one of the website here in SA asking people what they would be prepared to pay for albino boas.......
they stated crazy amounts like R2000.
thats the eqiuvalent to about $150 US.what a joke right.
people here want quality snakes, at cross breed prices ...if i can put it that way.
but hopefully we will get to the level that u guys r on in the states.
i love boas...and i am saving up as much as i can so that i can bring most of the true blood lines to SA.
anyway, enough from me.
hope to hear from u soon.
take care.
Bryce.

[Ritchie]

its really awesome to hear from the other side of the world...

I was always curious what everyone else thought about these wonderful creatures

thanks

[Acco_Asphyxia]

Just out of curiosity, Brandon, where are you from in Johannesburg?

How many boas do you own?

[Brandon]

hey there Acco.
Yip i am from Johannesburg.
Where r u from???
have u ever been to SA???

i live in the South of Johannesburg to be precise.

at the moment i have 2 Guyanan Red Tails, and two Columbians.
Not much but it iwll hopefully grow as more cash is available.

i have a few other snakes as well, but my boas r my Babies.

anyway, u take care, and i will speak to u soon.

regards.

Bryce. 8)

[Acco_Asphyxia]

Hey Brandon,
I am from Canada (Calgary Alberta) and have never been to SA, but in 2 years I'm goin to SA with my buddy to Johannesburg and might even live there for a year! :)
I'm bringin the snakes if I live there for a year and that's why I asked if they had a market for snakes down there.
Talk to ya later.
8)

[Brandon]

hey there Acco.
a lot can happen in 2 years but im sure the market will be even bigger in two years time.

what boas do u have???
whenever u coming to Johannesburg, be sure to drop me an email then we can meet up, i could show u guys around.

its a beautiful country SOuth Africa.
just got too much politics and theft and crap like that.
but the nature and wildlife r the best in the world.

im positive that u will enjoy it here, and even better if u stay for about a year cause then u will be able to travel the whole of South Africa.

speak to u soon.

[Aztec_Fred]

Brandon,

Seems like alot of other qualified people have given you the numbers breakdown about your snakes and what the offspring are likely to turn out like(ratios), so I wont do that.

What I will do is this.
Warn you...
Years ago,when the project was first comeing out
I bought a pair of guaranteed het/albino hognose.
they were a "hot" new project snake and I had dreams
of actually makeing some money and a return on a
snake for once.
I raised them up until about 1 1`/2 years of age, money got tight, Christmas came, daughter needed gifts, snakes were sold to buy some(I was laid off)
My friend bough them, bred them the next year....
6 eggs....no albinos
Ok....ok..sometimes that happens...sometimes despite being hets, they produce nothing the first time around that comes close to an albino.
Year#2-The snakes bred again, and again produced lovely norma hognose.
Year#3-Despite my objections, and us trying to track the guy down, my friend bred them again, you guessed it, normals again.

I was sold a pair of hets that werent het for albino.
As a fellow vendor and breeder I was incensed.by this.

You want albino boas? Then save up and buy an albino male and get yourself a definite HET female from someone that would truly worry if you smeared their name in the mud. People that want to be in this 6 years from now wont sell you a bad bill of goods. Personally, I hate hets, because you are giving the person you buy from way to much trust over too long a period of time.
Try Rich Ihle, i have had good dealings with him.
The prices on albinos will drop so you might want to hold off if you want them but cant afford them right now. Or get your het female right now and get some size on her and then get the male albino. Just a thought.

Sincerely,

Fred
(Aztec Reptiles)

[Brandon]

Hey there Fred.
thanks for the advice.

and yip, thats exactly what i am gonna do.
i am gonna get a full albino male, and a het female.

im sure that Bob Clark will not sell something that is not a def het.
well i hope so.

but i will keep u guys posted even though it will be a while before they r able to breed.

but wish me luck with them.

speak to u soon.
take care.

[Acco_Asphyxia]

Hey Brandon,
yeah we should definently hook up in South Africa. My buddy (Adolfo) thats taking me there moved about a year ago from there and he's told me all sorts of cool stories cwm4.gif(and bad stories :() about it.
He's also taught me some SA lingo.
Cheers, bru (I think thats how ya spell it) ;)

By the way, all 3 of my boas are commons (colombians).

[Brandon]

Hey there Acco.
yip we def will hook up.
and yip thats how u spell Bru.

anyway, keep me posted as to when u gonna come down here, so that we can make some plans.

speak to u soon.