Kahl or Sharp?.... opinions PLEASE!!!

[Sojourn]

This is Sooki, our supposedly Sharp strain 2001 male albino boa, named after the main character in the Little Golden Book "The Saggy Baggy Elaphant". Now for those not familiar with the story, Sooki, a saggy, baggy little elephant wanders through the jungle, not knowing what he is and asking various animals along the way if they know. They don't know anything except that he is NOT one of them. Finally he finds a pack of elephants that take him in, and he realizes what he is, living his life out happily ever after ;D....

The receipt we have from when we bought this guy states that he is Sharp strain. But for now I would like to have some fresh opinions from all of you... Here are some post shed pics of him from a couple of days ago... PLEASE let me know what you think!

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/1610Sooki'sRack-med.jpg

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/1610Sooki'sRack3-med.jpg

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/1610Sooki'sposterior-med.jpg

So...Do you think he's Kahl or Sharp strain???

[John_Lokken]

Right off the bat I am thinking it's a Kahl. But, not all Sharp's are created equal. Not all Sharp's have that "burnt orange" color to them. That is the reason why we buy them. But, not all of the babies turn out to be so. :(
Wish I could help more.
John

Either way. She is a beautiful albino. I am jealous!!
John

[The_Boaphile]

You can't tell by looking at him. Most Sharp line Albinos do not look markedly different from Kahl line Albinos. There are some great orange Sharp line Albinos but most are not distinguishable. The most important thing is WHO DID YOU BUY IT FROM? This is very important when purchasing something like this that may be one thing or another. Obviously you have an Albino but which line? If you bought him from Brian Sharp, Rich I. or Doug Matuszak you have a Sharp Strain Albino. I'd do the research to find out if you can confirm or not that it really is what you bought it as. It really is pretty important to know. Opinions here regarding how it LOOKS are only that. Opinions. You need facts.

[BigOz]

The only way to know for sure is to breed it to another Boa that has either the Kahl strain or Sharp strain gene. These genes are not compatible. So if you breed it to say a het for Khal strain and get albinos then it's a Saggy Baggy Kahl strain and you'll know for sure that you have been hoodwinked! That is the only real way you will ever know for sure.

Good Luck,
Oz

[Panama_Red]

He is a good looking snake either way, and unless that is a tiny chair he is on he looks breedable, If you can't trust the breeder that you bought him from you will have to prove him to know for sure.
Good Luck

[Sojourn]

Well,
Thanks for the opinion. That's what I was fishing for. b27.gif  Any other opinions would be welcome!

The cold hard facts are that I did not get him from any of those reputable breeders and NOW the person I did buy him from says that he is not sure anymore either, because the person he bought his breeders(two giant chiqita banana looking albinos) from is now out of the business and he cannot reach him anymore.  s3.gif
I think this is the closest to the facts I'm gonna get 'til I breed him out. :-/

b30.gifI will say that I paid a Kahl price for him, and nothing close to the going rate for a VERIFIED Sharp strain. Which to me says something, although proves nothing.........

And Oz, that's exactly what I plan on doing with him. I'll get either albinos or hets for Sharp/possible hets for Kahl, which we would be happy with either way, as long as the babies are healthy!

Thanks all!! Other opinions are welcome! ;)

[Darrin_Brasher]

Nice snake that would surely produce nice babies. My only concern would be , did I purchase the snake in $$$$$$$$$ amount for Sharp strain or Kahl ? From my knowledge and talking with Rich ( super nice guy by the way) a Sharp albino X Kahl has not been attemptemped with anything but albino X hets . So wether or not an S strain or K strain is compatible with each other would have to be tried to be actually proven incompatible.

[justsnakes]

Wanna know what I think!? That animal is awesome and that is the BOTTOM LINE!! With it being a male, it will be easy to prove out... just get a het for each strain and breed him to them. If I am correct, the Sharp Strain is not compatable to Kahl Strain, so if it is a Kahl Strain and you breed it to a Sharp het, the babies should couple out normal and be 100% het for Kahl and 50% het for Sharp and I guess that would make each baby 25% double het for both strains?

That animal is a smoker no matter what Strain he came from ;D

[Sojourn]

Thank you everyone for the kind words! We are glad you enjoyed the pics!

As far as being breedable goes, he's gonna have to wait AT LEAST another year(probably two) before one of our Kahl het females will be big enough to give him the chance.. .

Besides he looks bigger in the pics than he really is. He is actually a little more than 3&1/2 feet long stretched straight out, crawling across the crack made beetween our couch and the wall. So IMO he's not quite there anyway, but I'm sure he will be this time next year.

For now and in the meantime we are thankful just to have him. b27.gif

Take Care.........

[bodeboa]

He looks prety kahl to me, not that I am the leading athority or anything. He looks like my 7 ft male that I picked up second hand from pete kahl from a good source. I will try and post a pic in a day or so

[Floyd]

b27.gif b27.gif b27.gif
regardless of what strain it is......that is one beautiful animal. if it bothers you too much let me know and i'll be glad to make it "MY" strain! ;D jk!
seriously though....that is one goregeous animal.

[Jester666]

So whats this I read that sharps and Khal's strains aren't compatible? Who has attempted this? I would imagine that so long as they're het for albino it shouldn't matter, would it? I'm still relatively new to the designer breeding field so someone please educate me.
Where can I find a good website that goes over the fundamentals of albino/ t+/ hypo/etc... ?

Appreciate the info and the chats... ::) :'(

[Jester666]

Oh, by the way, that is one hot looking snake!

[Jeff_Gray]

Here's the opinion you requested Jesse ... Kahl strain . Both strains are VERY variable , but the Sharp is just a little less so . Just look at the REGULAR Kahl's ... some are pale some are not . There is the KILLER Ronne pastel , striped bloodline , coral . WOW ! I must admit that I've seen less than 20 Sharps & a few were light but not as light as the one in the pic . Also the Sharp albinos' & even the Sharp strain hets show some widows peaks on at least 1 saddle but usually several . This is only what I have noticed . And here's a pic of one of mine , I got it from Rich Ihle . NICE animal either way !

[Jester666]

Man, you guys and your albinos ::)! I wonder if Jeff does wedding registries? My fiancee (obviously) and I are getting married on Halloween yet we cant find anyplace to register.... The only thing we need is money (or boaphile cages, or snakes...teehee) ;D
Hey, if anyone wants to send us an ablino or even a het for our wedding :'( I'll give you the address.

[Craig_T]

Here is a pic of another Sharp Strain produced by Rich Ihle. I think if you look at the head markings you can see a distinct difference between the Kahl Strain and the Sharps. This may not always hold true, but all of the Sharps I have seen have this unique look to the head.
Craig Tanner

[Jeff_Gray]

AGREED Craig ! There's something about the orange on the side of the head & the front of the "face" . Also the orange stripe on the top of the head with the " t " between the eyes . One feature I described yesterday as widows peaks on the saddles , always strikes my simple mind as "puzzle pieces" .

[Jon-e-Boy]

I just wanted to say that the original boa that everyone is discussing is absolutely gorgeous. I realize this post is a little old, but I can't help from commenting. That is the type of boa that you breed to a light colored anery, and eventually produce some "snow-white" snow boas. Great snake! :'(

[Randy_T.]

I agree which ever it is, it is beautiful and I hope you get lucky the first time you breed it and end up with all albinos, rather than dbl hets. Keep us informed when you do find out which it is. Thanks for sharing Randy T.

[Red]

Here is a link to a pic of a kahl albino..   http://pkreptiles.com/images/boas/alb_normal/albino_05.jpg
And here is a link to a pic of a sharp..    http://www.briansharp.com/Sharp_Strain_Albino_Boa.jpg
But in my opion you have a kahl snow... I will show you why... Here is a pic...
http://pkreptiles.com/images/boas/snow/snow_03.jpg
I hope I could help...
Eric aka...Red

[The_Boaphile]

I forgot to mention something when this was first posted and will now. I must admit I have not read all the follow up posts so I may be repeating. Sorry if I am.

One thing you can also check. How much did the guy you bought him from pay for him? The fact that he sold him for a Kahl Albino price makes me just about certain that that is what you have. It looks more like a Kahl Strain anyways. Certainly the person who is alleged to have sold it to the guy you bought him from would not have been as foolish as the fellow you bought him from. Unless of course it is a Kahl Albino.

The one really important point I want to make; If it is a Sharp stain Albino and you breed it to a Kahl het this will leave you with animals that are all het for Sharp strain and 50% possible het for Kahl Strain. This is a horrible situation. That is if anyone wants pairs because the Albinos they produce will be a total mystery. In fact they could produce BOTH strains of Albinos. The only people who have thought through what they are doing will buy those hets and 50% possible hets to breed to OTHER Sharp hets ONLY or Sharp Strain Albinos. Otherwise the resultant Albinos from sibling breedings will be absolutely not known.

Anyone else ever think about that? It's a real mess. What is really hard for me to believe is that someone could have an Albino that COST twice what one bloodline cost and would not remember. I suspect your salesman was just "overselling" his Boa hoping to close the sale not thinking about what his misleading suggestion could do to the mix.

About two years ago a crooked herper named Jesse Underhill was selling Kahl Strain Albinos as Sharps. He had made a trade for a bunch of "hets" for nothing to buy who produced some Kahl Albinos and then was selling them using the same photos taken by the breeder as Sharp Strain Albinos. As if there isn't already enough to worry about.

My 2 cents worth!

Good luck and let us know those babies turn out!.

Jeff

[Sojourn]

First of all, thanks again for all the compliments and opinions! :'(

And just fro reference his first three saddles, although all but faded away DO have some peakage to them.....

Next.....

One thing you can also check. How much did the guy you bought him from pay for him? The fact that he sold him for a Kahl Albino price makes me just about certain that that is what you have. It looks more like a Kahl Strain anyways. Certainly the person who is alleged to have sold it to the guy you bought him from would not have been as foolish as the fellow you bought him from. Unless of course it is a Kahl Albino.


I agree.... and just on gut instinct I am about 95% sure that he's a Kahl strain. The guy(for future reference I'll call him Don) I bought him from, produced him from a pair of adult albinos he bought from said unknown third person. I have no idea what Don paid for this pair of adults. This was the one and only clutch of boas Don produced from these adults before selling them to another person. But Don will not argue or deny that they may very well be Kahl strain.

The one really important point I want to make; If it is a Sharp stain Albino and you breed it to a Kahl het this will leave you with animals that are all het for Sharp strain and 50% possible het for Kahl Strain. This is a horrible situation. That is if anyone wants pairs because the Albinos they produce will be a total mystery. In fact they could produce BOTH strains of Albinos. The only people who have thought through what they are doing will buy those hets and 50% possible hets to breed to OTHER Sharp hets ONLY or Sharp Strain Albinos. Otherwise the resultant Albinos from sibling breedings will be absolutely not known.

Anyone else ever think about that? It's a real mess.

I've thought about it A LOT! And "mess" is a good way to put it. But unfortunately, that's the predicament I'm in. So, as I've always done before I will make the best with what I've got.....

He will hopefully get a piece of at LEAST one of these following girls.....

Kahl Het female #1
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/8601SisLoveOnRack2-med.jpg
Side view.....
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/8601SideBetween-med.jpg

Kahl Het female #2
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/8601Keeper'srack.jpg
Side view.....
http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/8601rainbowKeeper-med.jpg

You better believe I'm hoping for albinos! But I will be happy with healthy babies regardless!

PEACE

[The_Boaphile]

That is a top drawer Het female you have there. Believe me very few look as nice as that one does. I would put that one in the top 1 or 2 %.

As for the widows peak thing. I am assuming that somewhere along the line somebody said that the Sharp Strain animals are more like to have widow’s peaks. Boas are highly variable and the Kahl animals have them as well.

http://theboaphile.com/2002/2albino_files/Albinof102201.jpg

This is a baby I produced last year. Many widows peaks. Here is another.

http://theboaphile.com/2002/2albino_files/Albinof102202.jpg

I have had people ask if Colombians that I had produced in the past were crossed with Surinams or something else simply because of widows peaks. Widow’s peaks can be found in some of any of the Boa Constrictor groups without doing any crossing. They are just that variable.

That female though... she is going to have some really nice babies for you! She is a beauty! We'll definitely look forward to seeing those babies!

Jeff

[Jeff_Gray]

That post by Jeff should help . Even though some Kahl's have a little "peakage" they don't have the peakage "squirrel skin nailed to a board " ( puzzle pieces ) look that Sharps have , albino or het , IN CONJUNTION with the dark orange sides of the head & the "face" area & the "t" line on the top of the head between the eyes . Notice how the Kahl's pictured have no " t " between the eyes . Each characteristic "own it's own" is "possible" w/ Kahl's . But if you combine them ALL , then you get a Sharp . Look @ every Sharp albino/het & that " t " between the eyes will accompany the other features . Just to be practical , I would definately breed him to the killer Kahl het . If it turns out to be a Sharp ( I'd bet it's not ) then just leave "Kahl" out of the mix when breeding . EVERYTHING produced in that case will be 100% DEF het Sharp strain . If you breed a Sharp to ANYTHING , Kahl , normal , het ( of any kind ) , salmon ... 100% of the offspring should be 100% het for Sharp strain ...according to the Punnet square . GOOD LUCK !

[BoaAmarali]

The fact is there is a distinct difference in the head markings,the Sharp strain has much darker cheeck and head markings.I didn't see too many Sharp strain Albino Boas before I figured this out.Other wise what's the use of getting one over the other,if they look the same.The Sharp have a stronger looking body build as well.Seems to be what I have noticed to be different.

[Darrin_Brasher]

Sharp strain and hets have a cross either at the eyes or a bit lower . Hets and albinos both . check my hets out and albino .I have more hets and all have this cross.

[Darrin_Brasher]

another het

[Darrin_Brasher]

another

[Darrin_Brasher]

this pic is older and the cross is showing more with age but it if you look close you can see it .

[BoaAmarali]

Red maybe you can set me straight,I was under the impression that Snow Boas stayed completely white?The last pic you posted you said was a Kahl strain Snow Boa,it's yellow?The first question about the Boa strain,I'm sure the Boa is Kahl strain I'd bet on it.I'd invest in Kahl Hets which that beautiful het is you said.So you should come up with some great Albino and Kahl strain Hets.I guess i haven't seen enough Snow Boas ,lots Babies few adults.Thanks

[Jon-e-Boy]

Just thought I would revive some old posts and get a few more posts under my belt. It can't hurt!

[Sojourn]

Hey Jon... What do you think he is? After doing some tracing on the whereabout of most of the Sharp strains around, am about 99.99% sure he's a Kahl.

Now that you can see him in person, what do you think?

[Jon-e-Boy]

It's got to be a Kahl, because you would have had to pay an arm and a leg for him when you bought him a few years back. He is certainly a Kahl, and one of the nicest I've ever seen. Thanks for the snake man; not too much going on with him now, but I'm trying to get him to breed my huge hypo female. It might just be a little too early this year. Only time will tell.